Author Topic: FLETCHER family - were they gypsies, travellers?  (Read 25752 times)

Offline Ninian

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Re: FLETCHER family - were they gypsies, travellers?
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 20 October 11 23:08 BST (UK) »
Hi Sharon and Rob

Yes, I've had some brilliant responses, including Personal Messages.  I started off trying to follow everything up at once and got totally overwhelmed - there is just so much info to take in.  I've calmed down a bit now, am taking things more slowly and am making great progress.

Many thanks Sharon for interpreting the names and directing me to family search, not only did I find the baptisms of a good number of Henry and Catherine Fletcher's children on the site but all 8 of Dennis and Isobella's kids too and others .... and I haven't finished yet.  I haven't got any further back than Henry and Catherine Fletcher yet but I have lots more to explore on the websites - Romany Jib is excellent.  On the Smith side I've got my tree all sorted back to Jasper Smith 1749 and it all fits together just great.  I've ordered the My Ancestors Were Gypsies book for a start, will probably get others later and explore the Gale site for the Oxford Journal.  I haven't had time to explore the Loveridges and Bulls but it's on my list of things to do!

It's an amazing statistic that 70% of British people have Romany links - we're certainly celebrating ours.
So many, many thanks to everyone.  I'll be back when I get stuck.....
Ninian
Roberts (Llandanwg, Llanfihangel y traethau, Ffestiniog, Merionydd);  Jones (Bethesda, Caernarfonshire; Llandyfrydog, Angelsey); Jones, Davies (Bagillt, Holywell, Flintshire);  Turner, Bardsley (Ashton, Lancashire);  Fielding (Darley Dale, Derbyshire); Brockelbank (Louth, Lincolnshire); Allen (Ridgmont, Bedfordshire)

Offline Darnity

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Re: FLETCHER family - were they gypsies, travellers?
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 22 November 11 12:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I'm interested in the travelling FLETCHERs too. I'm descended from Darnity (various spellings of her given name) DRAPER a daughter of Billy (William) and Mary (COTCHIN) DRAPER, who married a gorgio.

Billy and Mary had two daughters the other being Ellen who married John RAINBOW in 1841. I'm still trying to work out if he has some Gypsy blood but he certainly travels around dealing in horses, as a carrier and general dealer, mainly in Bucks and Northants but sometimes further afield. He was baptised in Yardley Hastings, Northants and his roots there appear to be settled, but maybe there's some Gyspy blood a bit further back.

Ellen DRAPER was his second wife, his first died in late 1840 leaving him with young children, and he quickly married Ellen. They can be found in the 1841 census in Yardley Hastings "in a van at the side of the road". His first wife was called Lavinia DRAPER but I can't fit her into any DRAPER tree so far.

Billy and Mary also had four sons - Spencer, Billy Jnr, Kisby and Ellick (various spellings but formally Alexander).

Billy Jnr died as a young man, with no known issue.

Kisby, who lived to a good old age,  appears to have carried on a relationship with a Gypsy called Cinderella (sometimes SMITH, sometimes BELDAM) and have a number of children with her, whilst also marrying a gorgio and having lots of children with her too. He can sometimes be found as Kisby DRAPER, sometimes Kisby SMITH and in later years with his wife as Kisby COTCHIN.

Spencer has a son called Aaron who marries Emma SEABROOK as SMITH in 1876 and says on his marriage certificate that he doesn't know who his father is. Spencer can be found as DRAPER up to the 1881 census but in 1891 he's with his wife Ann using the surname SMITH and his death is registered as Spencer SMITH.

It's Ellick where the FLETCHERs come into the story....

In 1834 at St Mary Magdalene in Little Brickhill, Bucks William FLETCHER a gyspy sojourner marries Mary LOVERIDGE otp.

At the same church in 1835 they baptise a daughter Sophia FLETCHER and in 1838 another daughter Hannah. They are shown as being of somewhere that begins BUL... in Northants, but I think this may be Bulwell Notts as there seem to be FLETCHERS in that area but I haven't seen the OPRs yet.

In the Autumn of 1860 down in Kent, and the DRAPERS seem to regularly travel down for the picking season,  Alexander DRAPER marries Hannah FETCHER and then I can't find them again...... although oral history suggests they had some children.

But in 1881 Ellick pops up in the Reading area as Alexander SMITH with a wife Phoebe and children.

So what's happened to Hannah FLETCHER/DRAPER/SMITH after 1860? Can ayone help - thanks
Gypsy DRAPERs, children of Billy and Mary - Ellen,Darnity,Spencer,Billy Jnr,Kisby,Ellick
Descendants of Fred and Esther (Garrett) WHITLOCK - Wavendon, Woburn Sands area
Descendants of George and Barbara (Willis) SUTTON - Earls Barton and Nether Heyford
BISSELL - Hanslope, New Bradwell, Bucks and Aston, Birmingham area
Lavinia DRAPER died 1840 Cranfield
Gypsies in the Bow Brickhill and Beds/Bucks border areas

Offline welshtrail

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Re: FLETCHER family - were they gypsies, travellers?
« Reply #11 on: Friday 25 November 11 10:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I too am researching the Smith/Fletcher/Russell family........

Have the same information as you, must be belonging.....

thanks
welshtrail

Offline Darnity

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Re: FLETCHER FAMILY - WERE THEY GYPSIES, TRAVELLERS?
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 27 November 11 16:50 GMT (UK) »
CitizenSmith said:
Quote
Also included on the same site is a reference to the marriage of a Henry Fletcher and a Catherine Loveridge which took place on 12 March 1822 at Bletchley, Bucks.

Bletchley is only a couple of miles away from the Brickhills I mentioned in my previous post - and two of Ellick Draper/Smith's children Israel and Britty marry Loveridges.
Gypsy DRAPERs, children of Billy and Mary - Ellen,Darnity,Spencer,Billy Jnr,Kisby,Ellick
Descendants of Fred and Esther (Garrett) WHITLOCK - Wavendon, Woburn Sands area
Descendants of George and Barbara (Willis) SUTTON - Earls Barton and Nether Heyford
BISSELL - Hanslope, New Bradwell, Bucks and Aston, Birmingham area
Lavinia DRAPER died 1840 Cranfield
Gypsies in the Bow Brickhill and Beds/Bucks border areas


Offline welshtrail

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Re: FLETCHER family - were they gypsies, travellers?
« Reply #13 on: Monday 28 November 11 10:26 GMT (UK) »
Ninian

I too am related to the Fletcher/Russell family from Warwick......I have gone back as far as the Smiths with help from the internet.........

Must be related..

Welshtrail

Offline Fonplegade

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Re: FLETCHER family - were they gypsies, travellers?
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 28 December 11 13:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ninian

New to RootsChat today!

Ref the following from your post: " Something that I can’t quite work out on the censuses but is not related to names is that in 1841 Dennis Fletcher, aged 6, was living in Roade, Northamptonshire with his brother James aged 19, a Tinker and an Isobella Fletcher aged 23 (might be James’ wife or a sister), but Dennis’ parents and the rest of his brothers and sisters were living in the First tent in the lane, Stow, Huntingdonshire.  I’m fairly certain I’ve got the right families, but is it usual for young children to be separate from the rest of the family travelling with a brother quite a distance from the rest of the family? "

I am directly descended from Henry Fletcher (1841 Census in 1st tent in the lane, born 1800) and James (1841 Census in Roade). Henry married James' mother Catherine Loveridge (born 1804) on 12 Mar 1822. James was Christened in Fenny Stratford on 12 Jan 1823. James is Henry's son, Dennis is James' brother and Isabella (also a Loveridge, possibly born 1818 or 1820) is James' wife (married 27 or 28 Dec 1840 in Bedford). In the 1841 Census James, Isabella and Dennis appear to be living with Job Loveridge who may have been a relative of Isabella (the large Loveridge family appear to have used many names from the Bible).

I believe Henry and Catherine's childrens names in the 1841 Census are Lematrice or Clementia (15), Charles (13), Sally (10), Diana (6) and Baucy or Bancy (1) and of course James (18) and Dennis (6) who were in Roade. I have also found a reference in a public family tree on Ancestry to a Vansey Fletcher born at same time as Baucy but can find no later references to either of them anywhere. Other references for Diana & Dennis would make them 4 and 7 respectively in 1841.

If anyone has any detail on Henry Fletcher's descendants or Catherine Loveridge and / or Isabella Loveridge I would be very interested.

Thanks




Offline Darnity

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Re: FLETCHER family - were they gypsies, travellers?
« Reply #15 on: Monday 02 January 12 15:21 GMT (UK) »
Re Catherine Loveridge and / or Isabella Loveridge - I suggest you buy a copy of  "The family Tree of William and Margaret LOVERIDGE" by Pat Loveridge.

It shows your Dennis and James FLETCHER (sons of Catherine LOVERIDGE and Henry FLETCHER) and siblings including Lementina and Vansey.

The book is sold by the Romany and Traveller Family History Society ( http://www.rtfhs.org.uk/
and select Publications) and contains lots of  information that you will be interested in.



Gypsy DRAPERs, children of Billy and Mary - Ellen,Darnity,Spencer,Billy Jnr,Kisby,Ellick
Descendants of Fred and Esther (Garrett) WHITLOCK - Wavendon, Woburn Sands area
Descendants of George and Barbara (Willis) SUTTON - Earls Barton and Nether Heyford
BISSELL - Hanslope, New Bradwell, Bucks and Aston, Birmingham area
Lavinia DRAPER died 1840 Cranfield
Gypsies in the Bow Brickhill and Beds/Bucks border areas

Offline Fonplegade

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Re: FLETCHER family - were they gypsies, travellers?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 03 January 12 09:06 GMT (UK) »
Hi Darnity

Thanks for this and for your personal message (can't reply to that yet as need 3 posts first I believe!). I have ordered the book you mentioned about the Loveridges.

Many thanks.

Offline Darnity

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Re: FLETCHER family - were they gypsies, travellers?
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 17 September 15 14:25 BST (UK) »
Re my post in this thread on Tuesday 22 November 11 12:57 GMT (UK)

almost four years later I've still not found Hannah FLETCHER/DRAPER/SMITH after 1860. 

Maybe she died, maybe she remarried or partnered someone else and is hiding under another name.

I'd love to know what happened to her.
Gypsy DRAPERs, children of Billy and Mary - Ellen,Darnity,Spencer,Billy Jnr,Kisby,Ellick
Descendants of Fred and Esther (Garrett) WHITLOCK - Wavendon, Woburn Sands area
Descendants of George and Barbara (Willis) SUTTON - Earls Barton and Nether Heyford
BISSELL - Hanslope, New Bradwell, Bucks and Aston, Birmingham area
Lavinia DRAPER died 1840 Cranfield
Gypsies in the Bow Brickhill and Beds/Bucks border areas