Robert Molyneux of Simonswood

[Radcliff]

I was very confused, now I see he possibly  married two Ellens,

firstly Ellen Caldwell
ST James Toxteth Park,
3rd of April 1791,

[Gibel]

The bastady document is held at Lancashire Record Office

  Simonswood. Order of filiation and maintenance of male bastard child of Robert Molyneaux, husbandman, and Esther Sumner, singlewoman  QSP/2421/94  1799 8 Mar


These documents are held at Lancashire Record Office

You either can go and view it at the Record Office or contact them and ask for a copy to be sent to you. They will tell you the cost. which depends on the number of pages.

Bastardy documents I have give the place for the supposed father - this may help you as he may not be from Simonswood!

Molyneux is a VERY common surname in the area. To sort out the Roberts you would probably need to go back a generation. The most probable place for church events are Kirkby St Chad's chapel. However I have family in Simonswood and occasionally they stray over to St Thomas in Melling or even to Rainford and some even went into Liverpool at this time to get married and then came home again.

This site has full transcriptions of the MIs at St Chad www.stchadskirkby.110mb.com

Gibel

[andi]

Thank you Radcliff, Garstonite and Gibel for your replies.

This is a tricky one and I have wondered if there are 2 Roberts.
I have found 4 marriages altogether 2 in St Chads Kirkby and 2 in St James Toxteth but almost all of the 19 baptisms take place at St Chads. Some of the baptism's take place too close together for there to have been another pregnancy.
Looking closer there are bapt which take place after 1808 to a Robert and Ellen so there must be two couples.

I also found a marriage of Esther Sumner to a Richard Alty in 1810 (at St Thomas, Melling) and on 1841 census there is an Esther Alty aged 70 living next door to my Robert Sumner so I think that is probably correct.

My Robert was a publican at Alty's Bridge Lydiate in 1841,
 
Farmer at Canal Bank, Lydiate in 1851,
 
Beer Seller and farmer, Altcar Lane, Lydiate in 1861

And after he passed away his wife Dorothy was publican and farmer at The Running Horses beer house, Lydiate in 1871. Its still there and i'd love to know more!!!

I wonder if Robert Molyneux's family knew he had an illegitimate son?

Will have to dig a bit more and try and get to Lan Reg Office to see which Robert is mine.

St Chads website is fantastic.

Andi

Looking again some bapt say abode Simmonswood and some don't say abode at all. Maybe that was put in to distinguish between the two??

[Radcliff]

I wonder if Mr Molineux left a will,
where did the farm come from,was it inherited ,?
also look for an apprentice record while you are in the archives for Robert Sumners,any thing at all that may throw some light on his early life,
and yes I would think someone within the family knew he had an illegitimate son,
not easy to keep things quiet, if he was paying an allowance to the mother for her son,
Good luck in your research,

[Gibel]

I'd look for leases as well. Most people leased their land at that time. Perhaps for Sumner, Alty and Molyneux.

Some are on a2a but you'd probably need to consult the relevant holdings at Lancashire Record Office.

Actually first I'd look at the Lydiate tithe map as that will list the pub/farm and tell you who owned the land and then looking for a lease would be easier.

Gibel

[andi]

Will look for those thank you. Did try and have a root round for wills last night but didn't come up with anything.One Robert buried 1808 aged 42 and the other 1844 aged 73 both St Chads, Kirkby.

Also found some other children of Robert/Margaret on familysearch, baptized at St Mary the Virgin, West Derby. James 1785 (also bapt same dates at St Swithin, Gilmoss?), John 1787, William 1789 and Ellen 1792.

Not sure when I'll make it to LRO due to work. Will have to try for a saturday morning.

Andi

[garstonite]

 is it possible we have 2 Robert/Margaret Molyneux here    St Swithins is Roman Catholic - St Chads is not??....or were they babtised in both religions ?...one of the parents being Catholic ?.....allan

[andi]

I now have 5 marriages


St Chads, Kirkby 1782 Robert Molyneux = Margery Harrison
St Anne's Liverpool 1786 Robert Molyneux = Margaret Wilson
St James, Toxteth, Lancashire, England 1787 Robert Molyneux = Margaret Chisnel
St James, Toxteth, Lancashire, England 1791 Robert Molyneux = Ellen Caldwell
St Chads, Kirkby 1799 Robert Molynrux = Ellen Beesley


You'd think they could have managed to vary it a bit wouldn't you??

Will try and keep sorting through it & yes I think there may have been a mixed faith marriage going on with one of the couples!

[Radcliff]

Banns of marriage between Robert Molyneux,now resident in Kirkby who has resided there all his life,and Ellen Caldwell,now resident in Kirkby who has resided there all her life,were published in this church,
March 20th,
March 27th,
April 3rd 1891,
and no impediment  alleged,
Wm Wise,
the residance of the above named parties is as above,
witness our hand 3rd of April 1891,
Robert Molyneux , Ellen Caldwell
St James,Toxteth Park

marriage,St James Toxteth Park,
Robert Molyneux,batchelor,of this parish,husbandman
Ellen Caldwell of this parish,spinster of the same parish,
married by banns 3rd of April 1791
in the presence of Ellen Caldwell and Martha Molyneux,