Margaret Jones b. Trawsfynydd d. Margaret Pierce Ffestiniog

[abstraction]

Found the marriage bond index record for Evan & Margaret.  (Now i've discovered there is only one eligible Margaret Jones born in Merioneth in 1814, and she is in trawsfynydd, unless the headstone is wrong, and she was born in 1813, in which case there are several more from different towns - but no Margaret Jones born in Ffestiniog the right age - all this is according to the LDS indexes of 20 years ago.)
Title    Pierce, Evan, bach., Ffestiniog, Merioneth
to Jones, Margaret, sp., Ffestiniog, Merioneth : 1834 Aug. 23.
In    Marriage bonds, ca. 1750-1837 (WlAbNL)004420303
Notes    Marriage at Ffestiniog.

* Does this index record contains all the information the record would have?
* Does this mean she was born IN Ffestiniog, and the LDS indexes are wrong? Or simply that she was living in Ffestiniog? ie, does this rule out Trawsfynydd as a birthplace?

[Gadget]

Hi

It just means that she was living in Ffestiniog at the time of the issuing of the bond. She might well have been born Trawsfynydd but have moved to Ffestiniog at some time between 1813 and 1834.


gnu

PS.  BTs = Bishops Transcripts but I think that it's a long way for you to travel to view them. I don't think that the LDS centres in Australia  obtain the films anymore 

PPS -The contents of the marriage bonds vary. I've had one that gave a considerable amount of information (bride was under age)  and others that give very little.

[abstraction]

Ok, shouldn't there be a marriage bann in Trawsfynydd if she was from there?  Maddie, I have access to the bishop's transcripts online. Do you have more information than this?

HEADSTONE
Margaret Jones' headstone says she died Feb 1838 at age 24. 
It also says she was born in 1814, and a Merioneth Shire History Society publication from 1970s agrees. (hgrawn cymdeithas hanes sir feirioneth)

If born in 1814
If she was born in 1814, there are only two margaret Jones born early 1814 in merioneth (according to LDS indexes). One of them appears to have died, because the parents, Richard & Margaret Jones, baptise another girl the same name a few years later.
If that's true, her parents are Robert Jones (b. Trawsfynydd) & Margaret Owen (b. Maentwrog), and there are some magnificent photographs of the ruined farmhouse they lived in.

Arguments against
* LDS records that i have from microfiche in 1980 may be incomplete
* The headstone may be wrong - eg, it may have been put in by her daughter 25 years later when her father died as well, and the merioneth history society may have used the headstone as their source for her birth, as the source isn't quoted(?) 
*  She may not have been born in Merioneth at all. Mining brought many people there in the 1830s.
* She may have been born under a different name and changed it because patronymy was dying out. (is this possible?)

[Gadget]

Not if the marriage was by Licence (i.e. signified by the issuing of a bond). Where you were born has nothing to do with the location of your  marriage anyway. It's your residence at the time (3 weeks residence qualification with Banns and none with Licences). With Licences,  the Bishop (or Representative) determines in which parishes you may marry.

Which LDS indexes have you used?

I will read the remainder of your posting shortly - have to see QI now 

gnu 

[abstraction]

The LDS index was microfiche, and it says on the printouts, 'as of May 1988'.  I don't have the whole index - just some printouts I took many years ago.

Understand that you can't miss QI!

[Gadget]

Not all baptisms will be in the records - the family might have been non-conformist or the event might have gone unrecorded or missing for some reason. The vicar or curate might just note down on a piece of paper the fact that he'd baptised an infant and these would be entered in the parish register later. Sometimes these notes would be overlooked or mislaid.   The BTs were the copies of the registers  made by the parish and sent to the Bishop each  year (within 1 month of Easter). Thus errors could creep in when they were transcribed  from the parish register to the sheets that were submitted to the Bishop. Occasionally,  events might be recorded in the BTs but not in the parish records.
 
Your 1988 BTs are unlikely to have changed between then and now!  However, the parish records might have events recorded that the BTs don't have.

Were John and Elizabeth the only children? It might be that they were using a traditional naming convention. In which case the first daughter might well be named for Margaret's mother.

The marriage record is likely to record the witnesses which might give an indication of their relatives. However, churchwardens often acted in this capacity.


gnu

[Gadget]

By the way, while looking back, I see that you were looking for Pierce David, Evan's father who died in 1847:

2 Bwlch wa or Let y fadog*, Festiniog (next household to Evan)
HO107/1427/3/29/14

Pierce Davies, 80, labourer
Morris Pierce, 85, farmer
both born Merionethshire

* unclear as address is spread over two entries!

Note that in the 1841 ages were grouped into rounded down age bands so 80 = 80-84 and 85 = 85-89

gnu

[Gadget]

Re Margaret's age on the headstone:
If it was erected after Evan died then it is possible that Elizabeth had got her age wrong. She would have been only about 2 when Margaret died and might have got the wrong information from someone. You might have an indication of her age from the marriage bond or the marriage entry - if she was under 21, it would say.

Re the patronymic form:
At this time the patronymic had mostly died out but it very much depended upon the vicar/clerk. I have records from the Penllyn parishes where the semi-patronymic was used for some years. Then surnames were entered for a while and then it reverted to the semi-patronymic again. She would be most likely Margaret Jones, Margaret John or Margaret vch John though.

gnu

[nainmaddie]

Hi Abstraction

I am sorry if I have muddled you with the dates available for the Festiniog records.
These are how they are written in the book !!!  I have got used to them over the many years that I have been searching for my own Welsh ancestry, before the age of technology 

From the Nat. Lib. you can see the Bishops Transcripts which were written and sent to the Bishop on Lady Day in Apr./May each year including all births   , marriages, and burials.  I understand that now you can only see them on film /microfiche, as opposed to the originals which I viewed.  Very interesting they were, some were scorched usually where you needed them !!  Some torn.

LDS certainly filmed a lot of these, and were still doing them when I was on a course at Aberystwyth.
So you may be able to order these from your local LDS centre,or if you get stuck you could if money allows find a researcher to do these locally for you.  The Nat Lib had their own researchers some years ago.
They also have the Parish records or copies of them there.  Otherwise the Dolgellau Record office might have a researcher