Author Topic: Danuella's Scavenger Hunt... Everyone Welcome To Join In  (Read 4386 times)

Offline Tephra

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Danuella's Scavenger Hunt... Everyone Welcome To Join In
« on: Tuesday 15 November 11 08:32 GMT (UK) »


Welcome to this weeks Scavenger Hunt and it's going to be a real Search and Rescue......... definitely a challenge for you.

Good Luck and Good Hunting

Barbara

                              *************************

I have William BILNEY (commonly called WHITING) and just cant get further than him..
First record of him is his marriage to Lydia Wright 18 Jan 1796 in Helmingham,they are listed as "both of this parish" and his is listed as William Bilney commonly called Whiting,the witness's were Robert Copping and Henry Smith. PR and also FindMyPast

On the baptisms of his children They are baptised in the name BILNER But William is always listed "Bilney commonly called Whiting"
His children then seem to alternate the names Bilner/Billiner/Whiting   
For Instance my Gt Gt Gt Gt Grandfather Samuel was baptised 7 Jun 1807 in Helmingham,his first marriage was listed as Billiner and second marriage Bilner.
On SAMULlS childrens baptisms,Hemingstone(PR'S) he is listed as Samuel Bilner Whiting and he alternates between the 2 names ie 1851 and 1861 and 1881,he is WHITTING (Whiting) throughout the censuses untill his death in 1886 where he is listed as Bilner,hence my family name is now Whiting..

So back to William,after his marriage and baptisms of his children the next info i can find of him is in 1841 census,he is at barham(union workhouse) listed as William Whiting,his wife Lydia is in Helmingham listed as Bilner,Lydia is next found on the 1851 census with her sons family in Ashboking listed as Lydia Whiting (as her sons family is also listed Whiting) Lydia died1860 in the name Lydia Billiner (ashboking) PR'S
William died in the workhouse(unfortunatly the records have been destroyed so can find no info from there) But he was then buried at Helmingham 1848 listed as "William Bilney commonly called Whiting" PR'S.

Now on the PR'S for William they are very precise about it being Bilney commonly called Whiting,i have found no variation to this (Bilney)whatsoever for William,so i have no idea why his children are Baptised as Bilner,also have no idea why some have used the name Bilner and others Whiting,in fact my gt gt grandfather had no idea until he had to use his birth certificate that his name was in fact Bilner.

The fact that the entire family alternates between the names makes it a very hard family to track,but i am utterly stuck on William,is his name Bilney??Bilner??Whiting?? Where did he come from?? In 1841 census the tick for "of this county" is there so i presume Suffolk,but of course that could mean nothing..

There is alot of bilner/Whitings out framlingham way but the PR's couldnt find William.

For refernce his children were  ALL BORN HELMINGHAM
LYDIA bn 1797 married in 1821 in the name LYDIA BILENY
GEORGE bn 1800 (havent found marriage or death but in 1851 he is listed as WHITING in southminster,Essex)
JOHN bn 1803,married 1835 in the name BILNEY,died 1886 BILNER(his children used Whiting)
My Samuel 1807
JAMES bn 1810,he and his children used the name WHITING can find no death
MARY ANN bn 1811,married 1839 in name BILNER WHITING
HENRY bn 1813,his family used the name BILNER
Robert bn 1814 died 1815
EDWARD bn 1815 (can find no trace of him after this)

I am sorry this is so long but i have tried to include as much detail as i possibly can for you all,i hope it isnt too confusing

Many Thanks
Danni
Onley/Only/Olney In Islington.
Wallwork In Bolton and Walkden
Lamb In Bolton and Ireland
Grundy In Bolton
Blackledge In Bolton
Osbaldeston  ?? ??
Barnett in Islington
Binyon in Islington
Kitchen in Bolton
Parker in Bolton

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Offline toni*

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Re: Danuella's Scavenger Hunt... Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 15 November 11 09:54 GMT (UK) »
well my first thoughts are that William was illegitimate and was christened as Bilney but when his mother married to Mr. Whiting he tokk this name and thus became William Whiting but as Mr Whiting was not his natural father William didn't then become legitimate and in offical documents was called Bilney ( & variants)


(there is an argument whether when 2 parents marry any children born before this date become legitimate i believe they do, others do not)

of course the law would not allow him to inherit from Mr. Whiting unless he was specifically mentioned in his will, its only recently that half blood relatives have been able to do so. that is of course if Mr Whiting was not his natural father.

Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

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Offline Ruskie

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Re: Danuella's Scavenger Hunt... Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 15 November 11 10:00 GMT (UK) »
Hi Danni. Great puzzle.  ;)

I'm not sure I can help at all, but for starters you should probably treat Bilney/Billiner/Bilner/Bileny as the same surname, but with slight variations. They weren't so caught up with correct spellings in those days.  

Maybe William's baptism will give a clue to the Bilney/Whiting puzzle. Is one of the names his mother's surname? Was he illegitimate?

Do you have Williams death certificate? Unlikely to give further clues, but maybe worth getting? Do you know why he died in the workhouse while Lydia is living with family?

Did any of William's family leave wills? Relationships may be mentioned?

There are some wonderful Suffolk experts who may be able to help - I only hope they see this post.  ;)


Offline Ruskie

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Re: Danuella's Scavenger Hunt... Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 15 November 11 10:16 GMT (UK) »
Have you seen the PR's on FreeREG? They have a William Whiting chr 1754 Rattlesden, parents William and Ann. This William and Ann also appear to have a son Samuel ....  :-\ Bit of a long shot I know .... and goes no way to explaining the use of the surname Bilney:-\

Offline toni*

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Re: Danuella's Scavenger Hunt... Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 15 November 11 10:21 GMT (UK) »
he maried in 1796 which is perfect timing for

land tax records 1780- 1832 The land tax was a national tax levied on landowners from the 1690s. Only one complete set of returns for 1798 survives for England and Wales (in the National Archives), but many returns are available in local record offices. The returns (or 'duplicates' as they are often known) were made for each township and record the names of owners and occupiers and the sum to which they were assessed.
(book, 1873 Return of Owners of Land)
Land Tax Records should be held at the County Record Office however they are not all there and are not always are complete. TNA can help to locate documents relating tot a particular manor so it would help if the Manor is known, - Manorial Document Register (MDR) a card index in the man search room at TNA is listed by name of manor and includes information about what documents have survived and where they can be found (not at TNA) some of the index cards have been put online, (Yorkshire, Wales, Middlesex, Surrey, Norfolk, Cumberland, Westmorland, Isle of Wight Hampshire and Furness (now Cumbria)) www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/mdr/ also try www.a2a.org.uk 
 
 
 
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline toni*

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Re: Danuella's Scavenger Hunt... Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 15 November 11 10:25 GMT (UK) »
Helmingham is an old parish with the hall there being built in the 1480's (i think)  therefore it should have manorial records and these would probably be worth consulting also for mentions of Bilneys

 Manorial Records, after 1066 the land of England was divided into Manors granted to faithful servants of the King. These did not always correspond with the boundaries of villages, towns, parishes etc. and often had their own name.
Manorial Court Rolls these refer to two types of court, Baron Court & Lett Court the latter tends to deal with law and order, on the other hand Court Baron is concerned with recording those who held land from the manor. 
(Manorial) Rental, listing all the tenants in a manor their holdings and how much they paid in rent to the manor. copyhold (now called leasehold 19th c) if you lived in or owned a house that technically came under the Manor  upon death or any over reason for the property being passed to another party even down the family line you would have to apply to the lord of the manor to do so and his consent would have to be given – even in wills (these should be  recorded in the Manor estate documents and possibly the court rolls)
Manorial Accounts recorded the income and expenditure of the manor though these generally do not contain personal names.
Manorial Documents were written in Latin until 1733.
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline jaywit

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Re: Danuella's Scavenger Hunt... Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 15 November 11 10:45 GMT (UK) »
What was his age on his death? That will give us some idea when to look for a baptism.
Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Steel Byfield Northants,  Rogers Northants,  Wheeler Oxon,  Roberts Oxon,  Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants,  Maycock Northants,  Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.

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Offline Framesmiths1816

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Re: Danuella's Scavenger Hunt... Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 15 November 11 10:58 GMT (UK) »
Is it possible that William's mother married twice, perhaps due to being widdowed early? Her first marriage could have been Bilney and the second one Whiting?

Just a thought - FS

Added - I note that there are also Bilney's in Huntingfield, St Cross and Withersdale areas around the late 1700's.
Warner, Owen, Putt, Mynett, Wickwar, Norman, Wheeler, Gray, Cooke, Dewick, Holmes, Lawson, Granger, Queenan, Weston, Wesson, Brewin, Cartwright, Heathcote, Heathcoat, Felkin, Morley, Hallam, Wootton, Adkin, Shepshed, Loughborough, Leicester, Philadelphia, Ontario, Nottingham,

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Danuella's Scavenger Hunt... Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 15 November 11 11:00 GMT (UK) »
What was his age on his death? That will give us some idea when to look for a baptism.

If I found the right William Whiting, he was 70 in the 1841 census, so b 1771. Unsure of accuracy as he was in the workhouse .... (so obviously not the Freereg baptism I found earlier  ;))