Author Topic: Alice HUDSON Murder 1913 - Alice's Grandmother Julia REILY  (Read 22029 times)

Offline sparrett

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Re: Alice HUDSON Murder 1913 - Alice's Grandmother Julia REILY
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 24 November 11 22:17 GMT (UK) »
John Carlile may have remarried Agnes Garing in 1886. Agnes was around the same age, from the same place (Granya) and had been widowed in 1882.

Here is the first marriage for Agnes.

GARING William Henry
 KELLY Agnes Maria
Year 1862
Reg Number: 2076

There are two GARING burials at the GRANYA CEMETERY

This is probably AGNES'  husband and I think it's described location is abit odd!!

GARING   William Henry aged 49y Date 15-5-1882   Headstone alone in paddock beside fenced in graveyard. At Granya.

This is her son -

GARING   Thomas Frederick aged 21y 1884 at Granya

The couple had a number of chn. the last birth in 1878.

There are CARLILE burials also at GRANYA, but I do not see JULIA/JUDETH there or at surrounding cemeteries.

NOTE, My resources may well be incomplete of course.
Sue


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Re: Alice HUDSON Murder 1913 - Alice's Grandmother Julia REILY
« Reply #19 on: Friday 25 November 11 00:14 GMT (UK) »
David Weatherill has some notes about the Granya grave & cemetery here:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/AUS-VIC-NE/2008-09/1222584522

Offline Neil Todd

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Re: Alice HUDSON Murder 1913 - Alice's Grandmother Julia REILY
« Reply #20 on: Friday 25 November 11 05:42 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I came across this site thought it may be useful given the area they came from in Ireland.

https://sites.google.com/site/countycavanirelandgenweb/census-1821/canan-1821

Neil
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Alice HUDSON Murder 1913 - Alice's Grandmother Julia REILY
« Reply #21 on: Friday 25 November 11 07:10 GMT (UK) »
AGNES CARLILE is the only one of the surname registered to vote at an address in CAMPBELLFIELD in 1903.

In 1909, she is the only one of the surname registered to vote at an address in ASCOT VALE, Melbourne.  She is living off "independent means"

She is buried at Fawkner Park Cemetery, and again, she is alone.

It would seem to signify widowhood or estrangement from JOHN by the first decade.

Sue
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Re: Alice HUDSON Murder 1913 - Alice's Grandmother Julia REILY
« Reply #22 on: Friday 25 November 11 07:21 GMT (UK) »
Her Will states she is a 'Widow' .

I can see that John was still alive in 1891, nothing further atm.

Offline 999WOODBURN

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Re: Alice HUDSON Murder 1913 - Alice's Grandmother Julia REILY
« Reply #23 on: Friday 25 November 11 07:23 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Sue,

Yes I had tracked those records to see that she was on her own by 1903 after marrying John Carlile in 1886.

Still trying to determine what happened to John.

I have sent an email to a contact address for the Granya Pioneer Museum. They mention on their website they have old family records of the Carlile family.

Brendan.

Offline rosball

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Re: Alice HUDSON Murder 1913 - Alice's Grandmother Julia REILY
« Reply #24 on: Friday 25 November 11 08:12 GMT (UK) »
There are lots of mentions of John Carlile in Wodonga and Towong Sentinel - mostly court cases.

It seems that Agnes was maintaining her farm and property which she owned before marriage
  - application for road through her land in 1890  http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article69563272
  - both John and Agnes separately sue same man for trespass in 1887 and court considers hearing both cases together but because Agnes owned her property before her marriage they were heard separately http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article70748690

John charged with cattle-stealing - dismissed 1887 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article70749153

John sues for persecution 1888 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article70749985

John J Carlile applies for permit to occupy in 1893 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article69565382

Unfortunately I didn't find an obit or a death notice for John - just these little snippets (and there are several more)
regards,
   Ros

Adding: They probably had  a very happy marriage living on separate properties  ;D
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Offline majm

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Re: Alice HUDSON Murder 1913 - Alice's Grandmother Julia REILY
« Reply #25 on: Monday 28 November 11 02:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi 999WOODBURN,

 ;D ;D Welcome to RootsChat!!  ;D ;D

This post by JM will help with finding those dreaded blanks on the marriage certificate:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html

Debra  :)

Welcome from me too !  And thanks Debra for mentioning that thread, as those dreaded blanks are so very very frequent on mcs particularly in the decades before WWI.     I can see that the pdf clearly shows that mc at Albury has NOT been reconciled by the NSW BDM Reg Gen's Offices.    If it had, then the details missing from Column 5 (birthplace), column 7 (ages for the bride and the groom) Columns 9 and 10 (parents details, including nee names for their mums) AND the NSW BDM stamps re that reconcilation would be on the image.    Here is a link to a thread where I have uploaded an image and made some comments.  (at reply # 12)

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,557757.0.html   

So from the pdf that Brendan has uploaded, you will notice that ALL the handwriting is in the one hand, which I believe would be the RC priest's handwriting.   The Church registers at Albury will be the best starting point to seek further info.

Cheers,  JM
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Offline 999WOODBURN

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Re: Alice HUDSON Murder 1913 - Alice's Grandmother Julia REILY
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 03 December 11 13:35 GMT (UK) »
I have acquired further information about John Carlile from the Granya Pioneer Museum - still nothing conclusive, but may help anyone else is interested in this enquiry.

Apparently John was the first of the Carliles to come to Australia. Originally coming for a visit, he decided to stay and became a policeman. When news of this reached the family back in Ireland, the other son, Robert, was sent to fetch him home. This could have been around 1851. Robert had been studying to become a doctor but on finding his brother, he too decided that his future lay in this new country.

It seems the two brothers both settled in NSW around the Albury district. John married Julia Reilly in Albury in 1862. Robert had married a widow Mary O'Connor (nee Clancy). The births of John and Julia's first 6 children were registered in Albury. Robert and Mary also had 6 (or 7) children registered in Albury.

Both brothers sucessfully applied for land in the Granya area around the mid 1870's. John seems to have had a chequered life. Looks like he was swindled out of his land over a road contract deal he had with a Reilly (possibly his brother-in-law) who made off with the entire payroll. John was forced to sell up to settle the debt. Following the death of John's first wife, Julia, in 1885 from a gastric ulcer, he married the widow Agnes Garing in 1886. Hearsay has it that Agnes "kicked" John and his family out around two years later.

So he had lost his land and his 2nd wife, so presumably moved on. It is not exactly known what became of him or where he died, although it seems some of his family remained in the district.

My wife's connection is John's youngest daughter, Margaret May who married a Sydney James Cross. From what I have been told, very little was spoken about in the Cross family with respect to family history. There was a vague reference to a "cruel step-mother". Could this have been Agnes?

Hope this is of interest to some. I will keep looking to see if I can find out more about John.

Brendan