clayton/Italian?

[flissy]

I have been tracing my Great Grandfather Archibald Augustus Clayton born around 1874/75.
He maintained he was born in Italy and came to England in the late 1870's as orphans with his 2 sisters Gertrude and Lydia. No other information known about his early days.
T
hey all ended up in an Industrial School in Shoreditch at age 7 along with his siblings and he later became a bootmaker and lived in Great Wakering in Essex with his family . I have been tracing an Archibald Augustus Claydon (with a D) who was born in Hackney - same name and birth date but this one was not born in Italy. It may be a family myth that he was born in Terni but I am not convinced it isnt true.

I  want to make sure I am not tracing the wrong tree and I have been told he was definately born in Terni, Italy and his parents were married in Compo Basso in Italy. I think the story goes that his mother was Italian and his father was English.
Does anyone know how I can find out if there was a person by this name born in Italy and how to trace records. On his marriage certificate it says his father was also Archibald Clayton deceased in 1896 when he got married, but on the birth certificate for the A.A.Claydon I have (the one born in Hackney), its says his father is John Claydon. Any ideas how I can get more info?

Thanks

[CaroleW]

Start with what you know. 

You are descended from one of his children so when and where was that child born?

Now look for that child on the nearest census to its birth and link it to Archibald.  Then check his birthplace

In 1901 - Archibald is shown as married to Ada (nee Holmes) so is that the correct marriage?  He was living in Great Wakering Rochford Essex with children William 3  Gertrude M 2 and Caroline 1

His birthplace is shown as London

1881 shows it as Hackney as does the 1891

Using the free 1911 index on Genes Reunited shows his birthplace as Hackney

You need to check the 1911 census if the child you are descended from was born after 1901

[CaroleW]

and I have been told he was definately born in Terni, Italy and his parents were married in Compo Basso in Italy.

Can whoever gave you that info back it up with proof??

In 1881, Lydia is also shown as born Hackney so have you tracked her to later censuses to check her birthplace

[flissy]

Hi

Thanks. I have been going backwards from the 1911 census and back to the Industrial school on the 1881 census. Everything back to that time is all confirmed. It is the birth record that I have for him that I am questioning because although all documentation states that he was born in Hackney he always maintained during his life that he was born in Italy and came to England with his sisters as an orphan.

The birth cert I have is the only recorded one for an A.A.Claydon (with a D rather than T ) in the uk so I been going backwards from that but I dont know if this backward route from the 1881 census is the correct one. It  may not be him especialy if he was born in Italy. His name was spelt with a T but the birth cert I have is Claydon rather clayton and his father on his marriage cert is Archibald but on the birth cert that I have it is John.

A bit confusing! I wondered if I would be able to search Italian birth records but I dont know how.

[flissy]

Hi

The only evidence I have is a previous search result from a website from 2006 which documents the birth of a Archibald Clayton in 1874 in Italy. We were given this by a family friend who we have lost contact with. We have nothing else.

[CaroleW]

he always maintained during his life that he was born in Italy and came to England with his sisters as an orphan.

Then why does he give his birthplace as London on censuses completed when he was an adult??
 

[flissy]

That is what we dont understand. Our nan (his daughter) told us that he came to England as  very young boy but there is no evidence to confirm this. We just presumed that this was factual and when we were given the results of the search we didnt follow it up as we were not actually seriously tracing the family at that point.

[CaroleW]

Did Lydia marry Arthur Wopling in 1898?  One of the witnesses was a Gertrude Clayton and Lydia was 26 so birthyear fits the 1881 entry.  She is shown as Lydia Maria on the marriage cert

If she did - she shows her father as William dec'd occ bootmaker and 1901 shows her b Brighton Sussex.  She has a 1yr old son called Archibald

In 1891 there is a Lydia Clayton b Sussex working as a servant in Hackney

[flissy]

yes that is his sister and yes we have yet another fathers name making 3 - William, Archibald and John. They cant all be right!

It looks a bit of a knotty problem. I have almost come to the conclusion that he may have been ashamed of his past and told this story about coming to Endland from Italy because he may have been abandoned in the Workhouse/school by his parents.