Author Topic: Religious heraldry  (Read 3352 times)

Offline Keitht

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Religious heraldry
« on: Wednesday 21 December 11 18:51 GMT (UK) »
I came across the attached shield whilst researching a now defunct Congregationalist sect from Birmingham in the 19th century. The heraldic description given is Gules abend argent between six crosses crosslet fitchee or, the whole within a bordure azure, for which I have managed to find an explanation.

Please can anyone tell me anything of its meaning or origins and why it might have been adopted by a religious order?

Keith

Offline Keitht

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Re: Religious heraldry
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 21 December 11 19:13 GMT (UK) »
Apologies. It might have helped had I attached the image.

Keih

Offline Little Nell

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Re: Religious heraldry
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 21 December 11 20:38 GMT (UK) »
The picture you have attached is not quite as per the description.  The bordure shown is possibly ermine, but definitely not azure (which is blue).

There are a number of shields with a similar blazon, but none quite match.  Are there any names in particular which are associated with this sect?

Nell
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Offline Keitht

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Re: Religious heraldry
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 21 December 11 21:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi Neil,

Thanks for your information. The organisation in question, Spring Hill College Trust, was established on the funds of one particular family, the Mansfields but this shield does not match the Mansfield shield to be found online. To  me it looks more like that of the Howard family.

Keith


Offline Little Nell

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Re: Religious heraldry
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 21 December 11 21:47 GMT (UK) »
The Howard family had silver (argent) cross crosslets, not gold (or).

Burke's General Armory (not without faults!) can be found here:

http://www.archive.org/details/generalarmoryofe00burk

It lists a number of coats of arms for Mansfield.  It is important not to confuse the coats of arms for the earldom of Mansfield (surname MURRAY) with those associated with people by the name of Mansfield.  There is a Mansfield blazon:

Gules a bend cotised between six crosses crosslet fitchee argent (another with the cross crosslet as or).

A bend cotised is explained here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend_%28heraldry%29

Nell
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Offline Keitht

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Re: Religious heraldry
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 21 December 11 22:12 GMT (UK) »
Thank you again, Neill. I have downloaded a copy of the book you recommend, which should give me some interesting reading for at least the rest of this evening.

I have the surviving papers of the Mansfield family, which show no reference to any pretension to the right to bear arms but the shield (without colour) is emblazoned in stone on the college they founded - the forerunner of Mansfield College, Oxford. The Birmingham building was erected after the death of the last of the family. Might this shield simplay have been usurped by the builders as a memorial to the founding family?

Thanks again,

Keith

Offline Little Nell

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Re: Religious heraldry
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 22 December 11 22:23 GMT (UK) »
Hmm...a fair number of coats of arms have been usurped and used when they should not have been.  It would be more difficult to get away with on a relatively public building.  I'm sure there is an explanation - but I've no idea what it might be.

Nell
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Offline Keitht

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Re: Religious heraldry
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 22 December 11 22:41 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Nell,

Despite in-depth research I can find no other reason why these arms should be associated with this organisation. From "The General Armoury" I see that the description for Mansfield, no geographic reference, is given as gules a bend cotised between six crosses crosslet fitchee argent (another or). Going back to the earlier posts concerning the Howards, doesn't the argent again match their arms? This entry describes the bend as cotised. I can't find an explanation for the extra term, cotised. Please can anyone help?

Keith

Offline Little Nell

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Re: Religious heraldry
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 22 December 11 22:59 GMT (UK) »
The description in the book does look similar to the Howard arms, but it does not match your picture where the cross crosslets are gold (or).  The Howard arms also has the lion of Scotland (slightly modified) on a shield (an escutcheon) on the bend.  The picture you posted unfortunately does not match your description - the bordure is not blue (azure) but would appear to be the fur ermine.  I can't find a blazon that matches the picture.

I did post a link for the explanation of what cotised means - you need to scroll down the page in the link to see a diagram.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend_%28heraldry%29

Nell
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