Bray Family - St. Petersburg, Russia

[Inchworm]

My ancestor, William Bray an engineer of Deptford, went to St. Peterburg around 1867. His daughter Ann Frances Bray was born there.
His grandson, Stephen Thomas James Bray lived and died there also.
I cannot find out anything about this family in Russia or why and how long  they were there.
Please could anyone help me?

Regards
Inchworm

[nanny jan]

Hi,

Stephen's death is listed in GRO Consular Death Indices (1849-1965); perhaps a copy of the certificate will list his occupation.

Stephen TJ Bray, Moscow Russia, 1916-1920, Vol. 4, pg 1065A.   Age at death 63; the image (hand written) is faint, could it be 13?


Nanny Jan

[ShaunJ]

The Genealogist/BMDregisters database has a marriage register entry for a William Bray in St Petersburg in 1869 (to Sarah Richardson, a widow) and also baptisms in 1885 of 3 children born to William Bray and Sarah Eleanor, nee Phillips (George Walter, Sarah Eleanor, Lucy) - might these refer to your William ?

[Inchworm]

Thanks  Nanny Jan. That is helpful.
Sorry ShaunJ, but they are not my family.
William Bray had his first family (in Lambeth, Folkestone & Dover) with Harriet, starting in 1833. (Can't find a marriage)
Then married for the second time to Sarah Ann Wingell in 1859 Lambeth and had six children. The last being b. in St. Petersburg.

[heroz]

Hi.  I am wondering whether we are looking for the same family?  I have just started a search on behalf of my 88-year old stepfather who has been told that William Bray, born Deptford 1863 and an engineer with a business in Folkestone, was his great grandfather.  He moved to Russia, date unknown, and at least one of his children was born out there.  However, in 1898 the family were living in Kondorovka (south of Moscow, I believe) and he worked for International Harvester.  This is very important because it was due to his British nationality that his son was able to flee Russia in 1917.

I think that your William Bray cannot be the same one because of the dates of moving to Russia, but it is also quite possible that we have "lost" a generation here and that William Bray might be the Great great grandfather. 

Have you found out anything further that you would like to share or that would throw any further light on this please?   

[Inchworm]

I would say that it looks as if they are both from the same family. I have a few William Bray members in that family. 1n 1851 census William was living at Viaduct Cottages, Folkestone. He must have gone to Russia between 1867-8, worked out by the ages of his children.
Do you have the names of any other family members connected to William.
Mine married twice. First to Harriet, second to Sarah Ann. He had 13 children at least. Two of them were a William. 

[heroz]

Thanks so much for that.  We have definitely skipped a generation here.  Always tricky when there is no one left alive to ask about these things, and even when they were still alive the information has obviously become confused with advancing age! 

I'm completely new to this Rootschat thing;  do we have to use this or can we exchange information by email, which I find infinitely quicker and less cumbersome?! 

Do you have any dates for William Bray - birth or death, please?  I have a copy of a newspaper article (Evening Star - 13.9.58) with an article on the "Centenary of Traction Engine Pioneer" which includes a photograph of Mr. William Bray with his two sons on his engine of 1858".  It also says that "In the Great Exhibition 1862 the Bray Company (then of 12 Pall Mall, London) showed an engine built for the government for permanent service at Woolwich Dockyard."  I am told that many years ago the "family solicitor" confirmed that this William Bray was my stepfather's great great grandfather, although at the moment I cannot quite make these dates work so the info is doubtful. 

Family members:  Arnold Denys Bray b.19.12.27 in England and his brother Valerie Charles Bray b.19.8.1919 - I am sure this should be 1917 - in Uchtomskoe, nr. Moscow.  The dates now become suspect because V C Bray and parents Alexander & Mary Bray (nee Stepanova) were supposed to have come over to England in one of the last British ships to leave Russia during the revolution.  Alexander had a brother who remained in St. Petersburg, name unknown at present, and possibly another brother Harry who was living in Romford at one point. 

This is messy!  If we are allowed to email I could send you scans of a few documents that I have in the hopes that we can help each other out.  Have you any particular purpose in your research or general interest?

I think Henry Bray had a brother who remained in St. Petersburg after the revolution, because in the 1950s Alexander was working in the fur trade and visited St. Petersburg once or twice a year.  After a while, apparently the brother asked him not to visit any more because it could cause him problems with the communists, so they never spoke again. 

Whew!  Can you sort anything out of that, whilst I try to construct some sort of tree with the info I have at present?

[cardir]

Hi! This is amazing only just seen this as not done much researching this year!
Walter Bray b Feb 1862 at 2 Abenger Rd, Deptford is my Gt Grandfather. His Father William b 1812 Deptford ,engineer and mother (2nd marriage) Sarah Anne Wingell b 30 Nov 1829 Northamptonshire. They were married 1859 St Johns Church Lambeth.
William and Sarah went out to st. Petersburg in 1867 on a boat named Virgo
Yes it is quite a complicated tree because of the two marriages and many children.I Will look it out if it would help.
 Williams first marriage was to Harriet Pudney b1811 London d 1854 their children were
1.William Thomas George b 1833 Deptford m Eliza Maria Gatland - their son Stephen TG is the one who went to Moscow.
2 Harriet Dinah b 1836 Poplar Middlesex  3. James b 1837 Lambeth. 4. Jane b 1839 Lambeth
5. Henry b 1841.  6. Maria Ann Susannah b1844 Dover.  7 Alfred 1849 Folkestone 
8. William Henry b 1853 Northampton.
William's children from his second marriage are:
9. Frederick William John b 1860 2 Abenger Road Deptford  10.Walter George ( my GGd f) B 1862
11. Albert William b 1864 Deptford  12. Sarah Ann b1866 Croydon, Surrey 
13. Annie Francis b 1868 St Petersburg Russia
I have a great deal of information relating to this part of the family - a photo album from my Grandmother Florence Daisy Bray, 'An Account of Walter's early years in Russia as a British Citizen and Resident of Russia Until 1917.'  Plus a v large work writtern by Sarah Ann's (Walters sister)son Kenneth Braidwood 'Memoirs of Life in Russia 1904-1918.
I hope this info is of use sorting out generations/relations if you would like to contact me my email is *


 * Moderator comment: personal e-mail address removed in accordance with RootsChat normal practice to prevents others from abusing it or spamming it.  Please use the personal message system to exchange e-mail addresses.  New members need to make two or three posts before being able to access this system.  Thanks

[Adrian Bray]

William Bray was also my great-great grandfather, and his son Walter George was my great-grandfather.  My grandfather was Walter Bray, Florence Daisy's brother.  I assume your father was her son Edward Eales?  I have a photograph of William on my wall.