James McKenzie Born Edinburgh

[anabanana]

Name    MARGARET MC KENZIE
Date of Birth    14 October 1881
Address    4 TALBOT ST
Father    JAMES MC KENZIE
Mother    CATHERINE DORMAN
Sponsor 1   MARGT BYRNE
Priest   ROBERT F CONLAN

[MonicaL]

Hi Gerry and anabanana

anabanana, wow, you have done great searches here for Gerry!

Not seeing anything at all in the info you have managed to source that indicates the family were still in Scotland potentially post the birth of James pre the start of official reg perhaps.

You have also been fortunate Gerry that anabanana has found the parish marriage entry for James and Catherine which showed both his father and mother's name. The GRO statutory register won't include mother's name on the marriage cert., just fathers' names and occupations, see www.groireland.ie/faqs.htm#15 and Section 2 'What information do Birth/Death/Marriage Certificates contain?'

Also, just another observation from the marriage parish entry that has been found. From the image, it looks like James' parents Thomas and Margaret still look to be alive (other parents' names I think seem to have a reference to deceased). So, this could fit with anabanana's suggestion that perhaps the Thomas McKenzie mentioned in one of the baptisms could be James' father?

I did a quick check of the Scotlands People Roman Catholic Birth & Christening Register. Couldn't see anything in the Midlothian area for a James born and baptised to parents Thomas and Margaret.

Monica 

[benchurian]

First of all, I must agree that Anabanana has done incredible work here for which I am very grateful.   
As for the other point about the family connection to Scotland.  It was known that the first "full" family in Dublin was my grandfather's. He was the James born in 1889. My mother was born in 1926 and told me before she did not know anything about her grandfather's family except there was an Edinburgh connection.

As for the Thomas, this could be the eldest son named after the grandfather.

Anabanana, where did you get the name William Thomas?  I see on the church record the name given is Thomas but when I saw it I remembered my mother talking about "Uncle Willie" in the Boer War.

Gerry   

[anabanana]

Hi Gerry, not sure why that is.  The Mormons page gives the names as William Thomas but the orginal church record says Thomas. 
Name    THOMAS MC KINGA
Date of Birth    15 September 1878
Address    2 EARL?
Father    JACOBI MC KINGA
Mother    CATHERINAE DORMAN
Sponsor 1   MARGARET DERMAN
Priest   E DUKAY

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/reels/st.catherine_baptisms_mf_1811-1880_ba_0931.pdf
Also  on John's baptismal church record it looks as though he has a middle name - I can't make it out - after Joannes - but only John is mentioned on the mormons page (www.familysearch.org) ....   

I'm not clued up on the availability of Irish records, but it seems 1901 is the earliest census?  Pity...it would be nice to see how old that Thomas witness chap was and if he was living in Ireland - perhaps he is a brother of James ...or perhaps preferably dad! 

There doesnt seem to be much in the way of emigration from Scotland to South Ireland in these days...one thought is that Thomas snr. may have been in the army...and took his family with his to his next station in Dublin where they settled....that may explain why the Scottish census records are not throwing any light on the family

Kind regards,

A

[sancti]

1861 with no father showing

Margt Mckenzie 29
Cathne Fife 62
Elizth Nicolson 50
James Mckenzie 7
Peter Bonnar 25
 
 
Name: James Mckenzie 7 Son born: Edinburgh Occupation: Scholar
 
Address: 25 College Wynd St Giles Edinburgh Lady Yesters

[anabanana]

Hi Sancti, I thought that one a likely contender but had to rule out as this James' father was William, and not Thomas as hoped 

groom's name:   William Mackenzie
bride's name:   Margaret Fyfe
marriage date:   25 Mar 1852
marriage place:   Saint Cuthberts,Edinburgh,Midlothian,Scotland
bride's father's name:   John Fyfe

[anabanana]

James & Catherine's marriage cert appears to show the residence of their respective parents...no idea what it says for Thomas and Margaret though.  Catherine has same residence as her parents: Earl St.  Margaret Dorman the witness also stays there.

The last column seems to contain observations or notes....first word of second row could be "Catholic"?
Last few words of third row "baptised about a year ago"   Maybe James had to convert?

[benchurian]

My reading of that note is
Their ??  (their both Catholic) went before the registrar about a year ago. 

My sister believes that the McKenzies converted to Catholicism at some stage although she has no recollection as to where she heard this.

One aspect of this is perhaps an overreliance on Edinburgh. I know I am the one who brought it up  but perhaps there was, as in most families, a false memory. I am certain that James came from Scotland but why would one member cross the country, cross the Irish sea and travel down to Dublin? Is it possible he came from the western side of Scotland?

The census in Ireland only covers 1901 and 1911 at the moment. There are snippets from earlier records (none for Dublin) but most were destroyed in the Civil War.

Again I cannot express strongly enough my gratitude to you for your help. My mother is 86 and in extremely poor health. I want you to be aware that the information you have uncovered has brought a smile to her face. Be proud of yourself.
Gerry

[MonicaL]

Anabanana, looking at the snippet you have put up regarding James's parents, I am now wondering if the word in the address box for James' parents reads deceased (corresponding abbreviation) 

When you look at the register for a set of parents, I think if one parent is deceased but the other is not, the deceased parent has an abbreviation in brackets immediately after his/her name. If both parents deceased, again I think, the deceased term seems to have been entered in the address box. If neither parent is deceased, the address box shows parents' address I believe.

Hopefully, someone with experience of these types of registers may be able to comment further.

Monica