canal boatmen leeds liverpool canal

[elzabels]

The marriage certificate I am looking at and dated 1913 carries this immediately above the signatures

Married in the Parish Churcu according to the Rites & Ceremonies of the Established Church by ---- or after BANNS

Have you looked at my pm?

[Lal]

Just found this as I've an interest in the canal boatmen. You might get some more help on the Lancashire boards!

Anyway...one thing it might be helpful to know is that the boatmen who worked the Leeds-Liverpool usually only worked that canal. It was built wider than most canals and most of the boats that worked it were barges, not narrow boats. So in general, that would mean that any children still being born on board would be born in places along the route - though most families were land based by the late 19th C.

Have you also looked at boatfamilies.org.uk for help? I couldn't find the names you mention but there may be other names which ring a bell.


Bit more I've found that backs up some info elzabels has given...

From the 1911 census there's a Sarah and Charles Campion living on Bengal St, Chorley, with one child. Sarah is born in Appley Bridge (which the canal runs through). Looking at Lan-opc (a free site), there's a baptism of Sarah Elizabeth Johnson 1892, Christ Church Liverpool - parents Jonathan and Elizabeth, abode Wrightington, occupation Boatman. That suggests the family had a house in Wrightington/Appley Bridge or thereabouts (going into Liverpool for hatchings and matchings was common as the boat families met up there - confused me when I first found these in my own family!), Can't see any other Johnson baptisms that fit though.

I've also found Jonathan Johnson (born Stockton Heath) on the 1891 census with wife Elizabeth and children Joseph and Mary E, born Appley Bridge and Standish (both on the same stretch of the canal). He is listed as Master of a barge (this is important), and resident on that day at Armley - the Yorkshire terminus of the canal. The family are obviously travelling with him. The barge seems to be called "Alice". His wife is born in Wigan so maybe this marriage would fit: Jonathan Johnson & Elizabeth Aspinall, 1887, St Catharine, Wigan (from the free Lancs BMD site).

One more edit - found Elizabeth Johnson in 1911, aged 44 as a Patient in Prestwich, listed as married and 'worker on barge'.

[jayb2]

Thank you very much for your suggestions & info I will have a closer look particularly the boatfamilies.org.uk.
I knew that there was a Jonathan Johnson born Stockton Heath on the 1891 census what I can't find is a daughter Jane  born somewhere between 1895-1898 Her marriage certificate says she was 19 in July 1914 and her father Jonathan Johnson was a boatman, but her death certificate says she was 59 in 1956 so I think I need to look closer at births along the canal probably 1897 & 1898. Is it possible that you could give me the reference for the 1911 entry for Elizabeth Johnson have renewed my subscrip to ancestry but its a nightmare for looking up the 1911 I find.
Thanks again
Jay

[Lal]

I looked the 1911 entry for Elizabeth up on GR, but I've just run a search on Ancestry and it comes up as second in the list of results if you enter: Elizabeth Johnson and Location: Prestwich in the 'search all census returns' form. Then once all the results come up, select 1911 only.

I'm not good at extracting these referece numbers but it should come out as:

Reg District: Prestwich 467
Sub reg district: Prestwich
ED, institution or vessel: 9-10
Piece: 24213

I hope that makes sense....

I was thinking about how you'd selected a birth in Armley as Jane's, and it might have been a red herring, because I really doubt the family would have stayed there for that long, the canal basins in Leeds weren't a place to linger. These were obviously one of the families that did all travel together rather than have wife and kids in a canalside cottage so Jane could have been born anywhere along the usual route - which is a daunting prospect.

Is it possible she went under a different name in the 1901 and 1911 census returns? I'm finding it weird that they can't be found as Boatmen weren't particularly secretive - but it's very likely an enumerator would get their names down incorrectly.

[jayb2]

Hi
I have spent many hours looking for them as a family on the census but have been unable to find them on the1901 or the1911! It's really frustrating. I do know that enumerates can get it wrong as I had the same bother with my husbands family who moved from Devon to Blackburn until I started looking at things phonetically but I don't see how that would work with this.
Thanks once again
Jay

[Lal]

I've got similar problems with a number of branches in my own tree - it's utterly frustrating!

A couple of ideas...I wonder if it's possible to look up the census returns by location? You could try to look up each of the main stopping points for barges along the canal (e.g. the Liverpool basin, Wigan, Burnley etc) and see if any names do fit. I had thought maybe Jonathan had emigrated or even died but you have a death date post 1911.

I'm guessing you will have tried all the alternate names for Johnson? I had a go and turned up nothing.

As for Jane, it's possible she was not living with her parents, but with another relative, so that she could get an education. I'd do some speculative research of Jonathan and Elizabeth's relatives - they may well turn out not to be the right couple but you may also turn up possible leads for where they had all gone.

[jayb2]

Hi
Thanks i'll start looking into their families like you say she could have been staying with another family member. I hadn't thought about looking through the census by places along the canal its the logical thing to do. She was working in the cotton mill in Blackburn when she got married in 1914. So I think thats the best starting point.
Thanks very much for your help & suggestions.
jay

[Lal]

Just had a look at what's available on the FindMyPast records - they ahve things such as Prestwich Hospital and Manchester Workhouse, though you need to purchase some credits to look at them.

Seeing as what looks very much like Elizabeth Johnson (Jane's mother) is listed in Prestwich in 1911 as a patient, I looked this institution up and there were admissions for Elizabeth Johnsons in both 1895 and 1900, which may explain why she cannot be located after the 1891 census. The 'infirmities' column is also now available on GR which I have a sub for - I'm afraid it's not very nice, as she's listed as 'lunatic' - which of course could mean anything, even simple depression (my g.g.grandfather is listed as that in 1891).

On the same site there are lists of passengers leaving the UK and there are Jonathan Johnsons listed in both 1893 and 1910. Also worth a look.

[jayb2]

Hi
I was given a possible Jane Johnson in cherry tree orphanage Blackburn jane age 13 in 1911 this would fit in with her birthdate as although she gives her age as 19 in 1914 but when she died in 1956 she was 59  so 1 think she was probably 15/16 when she married. Her mother being an inmate would explain why she was in the orphanage. I had sort of discounted the Jane in the orphanage but I think I need to dig deeper there.
Thanks I will also look at the Elizabeth Johnson in the FindMyPast records. Her father was on her marriage certificate in July 1914 but the stockton Heath Johnson died in Oldham in Oct. 1914.
Thanks again
Jay