DELL family St.Ebbe's, Oxford Birth dates pls

[NDRFT]

Hi
Sarah was nee Faulkner d o Thomas Faulkner a Brewer in Oxford. She married Henry Lowe 1851 Q3 v16 p161 Oxford.

Can't see a death for Henry though which is odd - but I only had a real quick look.

26 May 1856 St Ebbes Church
Charles Dell f a bach lab of Castle Street, Oxford s o Henry shoemaker married by banns to Sarah f a wid of Castle Street, Oxford d o Thomas Faulkner, brewer. Wits; Thomas Plumb & Elizabeth Plumb

Nigel

[OzzieJoan]

Hello Nigel,
Well, once again I'm in your debt and am very appreciative of your help. I can now put the finishing touches to Charles' marriage to Sarah.

Now, you might be able to help me with this, please. I use TheGenealogist for my census returns and there is no way that I can find Charles and Charity on the 1871. Nor can I find them in 1881 on either TheGen or FamilySearch (which is usually so easy to use). I've tried many different ways to search but I still only come up with one Charles DELL in both of those years.

In 1851 Charles is still at home with his parents age 22.

In 1861 he is age 30 with Sarah who is age 31at 4 Pensons Gardens.

In 1871 I find:
Charles w a very confusing age which cd be anything from 30 to 40 living at 9 New Street
Ann his wife age 28
Ellen                    9
Harriet                  7
Elizabeth               6
Sarah                    1                    All born St.Ebbe's
And a lodger Joseph Smith

In 1881 I find them living at 8a New Street:
Charles                47
Ann                     41   (now born Noke)
Helen                   20
Harriet                  16
Lizzie                     13
Sarah                     11

In those 2 years 'my' Charles should be 42 and 52 respectively and he should be with Charity.

In 1891 I have him with Charity living at 7 New Street.
Charles 62
Charity (looks like) 53 b.Islip
Sarah 21 daughter b.Oxford (so living there in 1870)

So where does he go to for those years 1871 to 1891 approximately? He isn't in either USA or Canada.

It might be that you have a sub to one of the other genie search engines which have a better or different way of coming up trumps. It's happened to me before so fingers crossed this time.

Kindest regards,
OzzieJoan

[OzzieJoan]

Nigel, you're confusing me with this last posting. I thought that Charles married Charity in 1863 and Sarah in 1856.

There are loads of deaths of Henry LOWE between Sarah's marriage to him in 1851 and her marriage to Charles in 1856 but none in Oxfordshire.

More later must go make evening meal.
Regards,
Joan

[NDRFT]

Nigel, you're confusing me with this last posting. I thought that Charles married Charity in 1863 and Sarah in 1856.

There are loads of deaths of Henry LOWE between Sarah's marriage to him in 1851 and her marriage to Charles in 1856 but none in Oxfordshire.

More later must go make evening meal.
Regards,
Joan

WHOOPS, so sorry entirely my mistake - I have corrected that post now/quote

[NDRFT]

Hi Joan

I have followed Charles from birth /baptism and see the problem you get in 1871, 1881, 1891

I see the following
1841 at home with his parents Abbey Place, Oxford - B 1829
1851 as above at Friar Street, Oxford - B 1829
1856 at Castle Street, Oxford from marr PR to Sarah, B - of full age
1861 at 4 Pension Gardens with Sarah - B 1831
1863 at Pension Gardens from marr PR to Charity - of full age
1871 - I don't get any hits for this one - bizarre but that's Ancestry!!!
1881 - 8a New Street, Oxford - next to Ministers House (this X refers the entry in the 1891 census where he is at Nos7 Next to Ministers House) - his age here = B 1834 and his wife appears to be Ann from NOKE, the 4 daughters are all born after the 1861 census
1891 - 7 New Street, Oxford - this is the same house as 1881 just a renumber /amended number thing  -it is in the right place!. The daughter Sarah fits - his wife's name is correct his d o b is correct

 

So I reckon it is him in the 1881 census and the 1871 census seems to corroborate this.
The anomaly in his d o b is not a great issue for me as I have seen so many examples of this and certificates are the only way to find some confirmation  - though not all!

I can find NO marriage of Charles to an Ann in the PR's I have and really I don't think he had time for another?
His daughter's ;  Ellen / Helen  Elizabeth / Lizzie and the others all fit in 1871 /1881

I wonder if the use of ANN as his wife's name was a variation of kind  for some reason, the 'ANN'
is from NOKE and Charity from ISLIP - these are adjoining villages, Islip being the larger of the two.

Sadly I don't have the PR's for Noke or Islip.

Nigel

[OzzieJoan]

Hello again Nigel,

Yes, it's a strange one isn't it. At least you are getting the same kind of results that I did. However, for the 1871 the only way I found that was to search for Sarah age 1 and that turned it up. I've attached it so you can see for yourself the problem deciphering Charles' age.

You said you weren't able to find a marriage for Jane DELL and I wonder if one of these could be she. It would make her about 18 which was not unusual in those days. I will check the census records to whittle out which one is her husband; there's only one Jane so it should be easy enough.

Marriages Dec 1845 
Coppock    Hannah        Oxford    16   227    
DELL    Jane         Oxford    16   227    
HAYNES    Joseph         Oxford    16   227    
MOTT    Mary         Oxford    16   227    
ROBE    Charles         Oxford    16   227    
SAWYER    Joseph         Oxford    16   227    
STURGES    Thomas         Oxford    16   227   
WESTBROOK    Mary Ann         Oxford    16   227

There is no Charles and Ann marriage in Oxon and we know for sure that he was married to Charity in 1863 and they are definitely on the census in 1891.

Thanks for your continued support.
Off to brave the torrential rain now and go into town about a sick oven.
Joan

[NDRFT]

Joan
I cannot see a marriage on the PR's I have but looking at the census it seems to me that Jane married Charles Robe/y.
They are at Friars Street, Oxford in 1851 albeit her age is 21 and ought to be 24

Nigel

[OzzieJoan]

Hello Nigel,

Thanks for finding Jane - I haven't had time to look up the censuses yet but now I don't need to 

I spent most of yesterday trying to find baptisms for the children of Charles and Charity (Ann). They are all listed in the 1871 as St.Ebbe's, even Charity. And in 1881 Helen (Ellen) is born Noke and age 20. I think she was baseborn and that this Q3 1860 DORRILL Helen    Bicester 3a/518, or this Births Sep 1860   DORRELL    Ellen     Martley    6c 275 (except when I look at the transcription for this it gives the name as Eliza).

Where is Bicester in relation to Noke, please? That is where her family is and she is with them age 20 in 1861 - and at the end of that census there is an 8 month old Ellen shown as daughter of Charity's parents but that's the way they did it in those days. I've added that census for you to see.

I've found various births for Charles and Charity but with strange variations on the surname so I can't really say that they are the right ones. If you can find them in St.Ebbe's records that would be good.

Regards,
Joan

[NDRFT]

Hi Joan

Ellen aged 8 months could be either James and Harrietts, Charity's or Martha's? What is the name written above Ellen aged 1? You need the Parish Records, did you know you can buy them on CD as you can pretty well all of Oxford City and Oxfordshire?

Bicester is 7 miles to the NE from Noke (as the crow flies)

I will have a look for Charles and Charity's children's baptism but there is at least 5 churches they could have used and I am under ever increasing pressure to finish painting the hallway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll be back in a bit

Nigel