" Story "

[[Ray]]

Pepys Road SE14
Pepys Road SW20

?

[jorose]

If you have the marriage to Eliza Foulds, who were the witnesses there, and what was Thomas' address listed as?

There is an 1825 christening for a Thomas Bearman son of Thomas and Susan at St Paul,​ Deptford on familysearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JWWS-M2G )
No siblings and no marriage for them that I can find.

[maltingo]

Double checked, it is SE14
regards

[maltingo]

Hi Jorose,
Thanks for your interest.
The marriage at Parish Church, Bromley, Kent on 9th June 1844.
The witnesses were, Samuel Hickmath ? and Emma Davis.
Residence, just says," Bromley," for both of them.
Eliza made her mark, x, Thomas signed his name.
Father's names, Thomas Bearman, and David Foulds, Gardener and shoemaker.

Under both the fathers names there isn't anything else, no deceased mark, so do I take it that Thomas's father was still alive ?
If so, it might be distinctly possible that my original info, that the great great grandfather was the person concerned in the "story", would point to this chap..........but I have no idea of age for him.
The family mostly do come from Deptford, St Pauls area, so your Christening details which show Thomas and Susan as the parents of Thomas born 1825 might be them ?
I suppose I am looking at Thomas and Susan and now wondering if when he died ( after 1844 ), it was he that left the will, that was forged ?
Thanks again,
regards

[maltingo]

I have just seen a death reference for a Thomas Bearman, Greenwich, London, jfm 1858, 1d 366, I wonder if this might be him ?

[Valda]

Hi

A gardener isn't really going to be someone who lived in a mansion and had a butler. To have a butler you would need a household of servants and be of some wealth. You would expect such a family to have privately educated their children and be of some standing in the community. Even if when this man died servants some how obtained his will depending on the date, the will would have to be proved either in a church court or in London from 1858 onwards the Principal Registry Office. This would take time. Anyone during this period would be able to contest the validity of the will. You might expect a family of some wealth and standing, if the man concerned had family, to be able to successfully contest the validity of the will and so it wouldn't prove. Only if it did prove would the beneficiaries in this case mere servants, be able to touch the estate and take it away from the family in situ, if there was an immediate family in situ. If the will proved then there would be a record of that fact.

Nothing in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury or the Consistory Court of London for Thomas Bearman. The indexes online that would cover the Principal Registry are not complete for the period 1858-1861.


The Thomas Bearman death registration in Greenwich registration district (then in Kent) is possibly this man on the 1851 census.

1851 census HO107 1584 folio 9
Field House New Cross Road Hamlet of Hatcham St Paul Deptford
Ann Wicken 26 Unmarried House Servant Deptford Kent
Charlotte Wicken 19 Unmarried House Servant Deptford Kent
Thomas Beerman (could be Bearman) 60 Married Gardener Essex

Possible second marriage for Thomas in Lambeth in 1844 (widower and gardener) with his wife living in 1851 in Hatchman HO107 1584 folio 16

It looks like the family who owned the property 'Field House' were away on census night with three servants remaining. There is a picture of Field House on this website

http://thehill.org.uk/society/history.htm


Pigots Directory of 1840 for Deptford lists

STANSFIELD Josiah esq, (magistrate), Field house, Newcross

http://janetandrichardsgenealogy.co.uk/Pigots%201840%20Kent%20-%20Deptford.html

Josiah appears on the 1841 census HO107 488/17 folio 7 living on New Cross Road but the house on this census is not named. He is of independent means, living possibly with a wife (no relationships given on the 1841 census) three servants but no other family shown.

This leaves a further possibility that the story actually concerns the Stansfield family with Thomas a servant in the household and therefore knowledgeable about 'the event' or even perhaps involved in it, though Josiah Stansfield looks to have had Yorkshire connections and possibly died there and not in Kent.

You might want to obtain a copy of Thomas Bearman's death certificate to see what circumatances he died in.



Regards

Valda

[maltingo]

Valda,
Thank you for your very informative reply, I have found it very interesting.
I also see the alternative theory, that Thomas may have worked at the household, thus having knowledge of the
 " story".

The great grandfather Thomas on certain census has his birth year as 1825. ( he died in 1890)
His father Thomas, I dont know a birth year for.
Is it the Thomas who died in Greenwich jfm 1858, 1d 366, that you advise, the certificate, I send for ?
Many thanks
regards

[Valda]

Hi

Josias or Josiah Stansfield looks to have died in the Greenwich area in 1846 and Amelia in 1859. Her burial was at Nunhead cemetery - of Field House. Neither of those dates show a significant connection to Thomas Bearman's death in 1858.
Though there doesn't seem to be a Pepy's Road on the early censuses Googling Pepy's Road places one in the New Cross vicinity so at some point there was a Pepys Road close by.

If the Thomas Bearman's/Beerman,  the gardener on the 1851 census at Field House was the father of Thomas Bearman who married Eliza Foulds, then you do have a birth year for him circa 1790/1791 in Essex  - information from the 1851 census.


Regards


Valda

[Nick29]

There are a couple of pitfalls that you should avoid - (1) stories tend to become embellished over time, when passed down through families, and (2) it's very easy to make facts fit the story, instead of vice-versa.

There was a story in my family about how my grandfather was the Head Gardener in one of the major London Parks, and on further investigation it was revealed that he only worked in the park as a contractor, and he was fired when he contracted pneumonia after working up to his waste in water for a whole day.