COMPLETED: Lost Marriage: John Shaw & Eliza Grave :COMPLETED

[Tony Freeman]

Looking for confirmation of the marriage of John Shaw & Elizabeth Jane Grave in Manchester in period say 1848 ~ 1853.
I have been unable to locate in IGI and Ancestry Records.

John Shaw born in High Lee in 1829.
Elizabeth Jane Grave born in Manchester in 1834 ~ 1836 (differing dates in Censuses).

They had 5 children all baptised at the Cathedral, Manchester.
Elizabeth Ann ~ 1852
John Henry ~ 1854
William ~ 1856
Joseph ~ 1859
Elizabeth Jane ~ 1860

All help appreciated :-)

[andrewalston]

In 1861 the family are in Ardwick.

John's wife is down as Eliza, and the youngest child is Eliza Jane. One child called Elizabeth and another Elizabeth Jane doesn't seem right.

In 1851, a John Shaw married an Eliza J Leigh at St. Mary's in Manchester.

Right time frame, only one name which doesn't match. Maybe Eliza had already been widowed.

[avm228]

Eliza was enumerated as 28 in 1861 so would have been about 18 upon marriage in 1851.

There is this baptism:

24 Feb 1832, Manchester Collegiate Church

Eliza Jane Leigh, daughter of John and Ann

Likely 1851 census ref (Eliza still with them, aged 19): HO107/2229/296/55



What is the source of the "Grave" maiden name for John's wife?

[Tony Freeman]

I have been rechecking the information I have and it appears that an error has been made.

All the baptismal records show "Eliza" or "Eliza Jane" and not "Elizabeth".

I have been trying to prove that the 1861 Census was in fact "Elizabeth Grave" and was looking for the marriage.
I did not have any direct connections to John Shaw or the children.
Sorry for the error :-)

[mshrmh]

Tony - I'm not sure if you're still looking at this couple - if you are FamilySearch has images of the church copy of the register
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12657-9336-32?cc=1788853&wc=10932830

[Tony Freeman]

Thank you for all your help and suggestions.
With my magnifying glass out I have rechecked what I have :-))

Her name should have read "Eliza" Jane Grave.

I have now found her marriage to John Shaw in AMJ 1860 in Manchester.

Interesting to note that they had 5 children between 1852 and 1860.
All the baptisms have either Eliza or Eliza Jane & John Shaw recorded as the parents.
All found living together in the 1861 Census.

I have now sent away for the marriage certificate to confirm all is correct :-)

Best regards .. Tony F

[RonOne]

I have now sent away for the marriage certificate to confirm all is correct :-)

Hi Tony,

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings:

Marriages Jun 1860
FIELDING Sarah - Manchester 8d 174
GRAVE Eliza - Manchester 8d 174
MANGNALL Fenfon [sic] - Manchester 8d 174 
SHAW John - Manchester  8d 174

Fenton MANGNALL married Eliza GRAVE - 12 Apr 1860 at Manchester Cathedral
John SHAW married Sarah FIELDING - 12 Apr 1860 at Manchester Cathedral

Lancashire BMD (which indexes the Local Register Office registers) gives a definite couple whereas the GRO index lists up to eight people per reference (which makes it difficult to decide which male married which female)

I hope you ordered from the GRO and gave both bride and groom's names, at least that way you should get a full refund.

[Tony Freeman]

ahahahahah ! !

I thought I had cracked it and had some scandal in the family :-)

Thanks for your help ..... crazy system.
I had put both names down in the online application, so should get a full refund.

I guess I will have to keep searching :-((

Best regards,
Tony F

[mshrmh]

Tony - as you've mentioned baptisms for the children rather than birth certificates, I'll repeat

What is the source of the "Grave" maiden name for John's wife?