Author Topic: McNamara Abbey fishermen  (Read 14566 times)

Offline Vinwad

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McNamara Abbey fishermen
« on: Tuesday 31 January 12 19:58 GMT (UK) »
I’m trying to trace the death and burial of my g.grandfather and my grandfather and would be grateful for any help/pointers that forum members might be able to offer.

My g.grandfather was Peter (Iron Man/Smuts) McNamara and was one of the Abbey fishermen. Peter was born in 1878 and was still around aged 60 in 1938 when compensation was paid to the Abbey men for the loss of their fishing rights. However, I don’t know when he died or where he is buried. I’ve checked the Mount St Lawrence cemetery records covering a number of years but he doesn’t appear to be buried there. I’ve read that Abbey fishermen had an ancient right to be buried in the grounds of St Mary’s Cathedral – is there any way to check burials there online? (I’m based in London so can’t get to St Mary’s easily).

Peter’s eldest son, and my grandfather, was James McNamara was born in 1898. James is down as a fisherman on his marriage certificate (1920) but is down as a labourer on his death certificate. Date of death was March 1943 by which time the Abbey fishermen no longer fished the Shannon.  I have a similar problem with the location of James’s burial – can’t find him at Mount St Lawrence cemetery. Is there another cemetery where Abbey people were buried?

Also, regarding James, he didn’t appear on the list of fishermen compensated for their loss of fishing rights in 1938. Does anyone know why certain fishermen received no compensation?

Thanks for any help

Vince
Waddams, McNamara, Collopy, Limerick, Bedworth, Warwickshire

Offline LimerickLad

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Re: McNamara Abbey fishermen
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 04 February 12 20:22 GMT (UK) »
Greetings from Limerick

I know of  a woman who is married to one of the Clancys,  she did a masters on the Abbey Fishermen.  She published a short book, which I am looking at as I write.  I wonder are you aware of it?  I have been in touch with her before as one of my great aunts married one of Todsie McNamara's sons in the US.  I will see if I can contact her and she may be able to help you.  Was Peter Todsie's brother?  What was James's nickname.  I know the Clancys have a grave in St Mary's catherdral as it is very close to a grave in which some of my relatives are buried.  I don't know about the McNamaras.  You would have to contact the Cathedral for info, I'm not aware of anything on line.


Regards

Tom

Offline Vinwad

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Re: McNamara Abbey fishermen
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 05 February 12 13:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tom,

I've seen Sharon Clancy's website (very useful) but not the book.

I haven't done enough research to determine if Peter (Iron Man) and Patrick (Todsie) were brothers although they must have been related in some way. Peter's father was John McNamara who was also a fisherman, and John was married to Johanna Crowe - the Crowe's were sandmen who also worked the river. I have to do a bit of research on Todsie to see who his parents were.

James's nickname is also a mystery. I only got Peter's nickname from the published records of compensation as their nicknames were not passed down through the family. The records show that James brother Robert (Dutch) was also awarded compensation, hence my question as to why James doesn't appear on the list.

Thanks for the pointer - I'll try contacting the cathedral. I'm hoping to visit Dublin and Limerick later in the year so hopefully I'll be able to clear up some things with a search through the official records.

Vince
Waddams, McNamara, Collopy, Limerick, Bedworth, Warwickshire

Offline LimerickLad

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Re: McNamara Abbey fishermen
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 05 February 12 13:22 GMT (UK) »
Hi Vince

There is a James McNamara (Elbows) in Sharon's  book of  3 Sheep St but born 1903.  He got compensation.

Regards

Tom


Offline Vinwad

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Re: McNamara Abbey fishermen
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 05 February 12 13:49 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tom,

I've come across 'Elbows' in my research but he is a bit younger than my James who was born in 1898.

I done some cross referencing with the 1911 census when I first came across 'Elbows' and he appears to be one of Todsie's sons.

I think this highlights why they used nicknames, with so many Patricks, Peters, James and Johns all bearing the same surname it was bound to get very confusing!

Vince
Waddams, McNamara, Collopy, Limerick, Bedworth, Warwickshire

Offline Shaztoni

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Re: McNamara Abbey fishermen
« Reply #5 on: Monday 14 May 12 21:57 BST (UK) »
Although some of the Fishermen had rights to St. Mary's graveyard, the McNamara's were not one of the families, unfortunately as that leads to more difficulty in trying to locate your ancestor.
Peter (Iron Man) and Patrick (Todsie), were not brothers, though the records are very hard to determine for the generation before, as there were a great many Patrick McNamaras and John McNamaras baptised in both St. Mary's Parish and St. Patricks Parish, during the 1830s. But it is very likely that they were cousins.

As far as I am aware, there is a Crowe grave in St. Mary's graveyard, so perhaps he may be there?.

As far as which fishermen were compensated, it came down to how long they had worked on the river and their age. There were many fishermen who had left Limerick during the 1930s due to poverty brought about by the lack of fishing rights but as they had left they were not awarded any compensation. Perhaps James had also left during this period.

Finally, there was recently the memoirs of  Jackie Clancy published, there was only a very short run (100 copies) but if you are in Limerick see if you can get one from the Celtic Book Shop or O'Mahonys Book Shop.
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Offline Shaztoni

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Re: McNamara Abbey fishermen
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 15 May 12 17:08 BST (UK) »
I went down to St. Mary's Cathedral graveyard and found the Crowes/Hayes grave, and the Clancy grave but they are the only Fishermen in there, unfortunately there was no mention of McNamara's on the headstones.
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Offline Vinwad

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Re: McNamara Abbey fishermen
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 15 May 12 19:16 BST (UK) »
Thanks Scrattletrap - especially for taking the trouble to pop down to St Mary's which allows me to eliminate that location as well as Mount St Lawrence.

The search for James' and Peter's resting place will have to continue when I next get a chance to visit Limerick. I suspect James did look elsewhere for work during hard times as certain certificates describe him as a labourer whilst others state fisherman.

Thanks also for the tip on Jackie Clancy's book - I'll look that up when I'm over.

Vince
Waddams, McNamara, Collopy, Limerick, Bedworth, Warwickshire

Offline mac777

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Re: McNamara Abbey fishermen
« Reply #8 on: Monday 06 August 12 20:35 BST (UK) »
Hi Vince...I am a McNamara and a descendent of Abbey Fisherman..ive heard the name Waddams spoken by my Dad as cousins .....Im from Limerick but living here in London a while...I rang him when seeing your post and have asked him to dig up the info for you....I will post it for you when i receive it back from him..yours ..Peter