Gertrude Ayton, actress of some renown?

[RedMystic]

Hi guys.

Sorry I haven't checked in today. I've been going like a mad fiend for the past 18 hrs so need to go study the inside of my eyelids.

It seems that you've had some more finds which I'll check on first thing in the morning. I think I have notes somewhere that father of the groom, Robert Copland, was in the rubber business, but please don't take that as fact until I check into it & get back to you.

I don't have a death date for him (though, admittedly, he hasn't yet been on my list for researching so it's likely easily available). He was born in Lerwick, Shetland in 1862 & married Jessie Inkster (my husband's great aunt) in Apr 1888.

I'm in western Canada so visiting any locations to look up things myself is not likely in the near term. I'll look into what you've found that I can order up online in the morning.

This is shaping up to be a merry chase. Thanks again to one & all who are participating. Your efforts are much appreciated.

PS  TX MonicaL for posting the update on the Midlothian, Scotland link.

[mshrmh]

The 1891 birth is on LancashireBMD as in the Cheetham sub-district. Prestwich & Cheetham are just north of Manchester, between the city & Bury. The original register for the birth is held at Manchester (you can download a form from the LancsBMD site to order by post or you can order via the GRO (online):
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk

I've checked FamilySearch and the Lancashire Online Parish Clerk site & neither appears to have her baptism. I've done a brief check on the 1891 Census for a Robert Ayton in England & Wales with no hits. There are other Aytons in the Prestwich registration district on that census.

[RedMystic]

According to a copy of the register entry from GRO: On First July, 1916, at the Register Office in Gloucester:

John Robert Copland, 28, Dental practitioner of Gloucester
married
Gertrude Margaret Ayton, 24, Actress of Gloucester

Both fathers are deceased:
Robert Copland, Rubber expert (?)
William Ayton, Translator of foreign languages

Good morning! TX again for all you did yesterday.

This is what I know about Robert Copland in the event it helps.

On 4th April 1888, in Aberdeen, Jessie Inkster married Robert Copland. Jessie was 27, occupation: dressmaker; Robert was 25, occupation: baker (journeyman). Their witnesses were Lizzie Anderson and Agnes McKay Taylor. By 1911, husband Robert was not recorded in the house. Wife Jessie is listed as married so I presume he died sometime between 1911 & his son's 1916 wedding to Gertrude.

[mshrmh]

RedMystic - are you interested in both Gertrude & Jack's ancestors or just one of them or is it "putting meat on the bones" of one or both?

[RedMystic]

Hi mshrmh

TX for that question. I am primarily interested in Gertrude, who she was & what happened to her.

The ancestor bit is definitely enlightening (much more entertaining than I anticipated) & may provide some pointers of where to look for and track Gertrude to ensure she's the right person.

I may dig deeper when it comes to the ancestors as my curiosity is now piqued, but for now, it's Gertrude that has me befuddled.

Thank you once again for all your help so far.

[mshrmh]

Thanks for answering - I'll have a potter around & see what, if anything, I can find on her prior to the marriage.

[RedMystic]

According to a copy of the register entry from GRO: On First July, 1916, at the Register Office in Gloucester:

John Robert Copland, 28, Dental practitioner of Gloucester
married
Gertrude Margaret Ayton, 24, Actress of Gloucester

Both fathers are deceased:
Robert Copland, Rubber expert (?)
William Ayton, Translator of foreign languages

Thank you for this lochdubh.

Are there any hints provided based on who the witnesses were?

Interesting that they married in the Registrar's office & even more interesting to me that John was practising dentistry in Gloucester. I had presumed (I know, once should never do that ) that he only practised in Edinburgh.

TX again.

[RedMystic]

Thanks lochdubh 

I put on the other new post on the Midlothiand board that RedMystic has already linked on www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,580299.0.html) a possible remarriage for a Gertrude Margaret Copland to a Nanson - this has been misindexed, likely because I think the surname is Hanson (1950, 2nd Qrt in Ealing, Middlesex - Vol. 40, pg. 556) - groom Harry T Hanson. Wondered whether this may be a remarriage.

There is also a death in May 1988 for a Gertrude Margaret Hanson, b. 18 Jul 1891 in Blackpool and Fylde, Lancashire.

Again, wondered whether this was Gertrude. Her age at death/birth year would fit with the age you have at the marriage in 1916.

Monica

Added: Just realised the age at death for this Gertrude...a long life 

Thank you for this MonicaL. She was a long lived gal, wasn't she?

Are there any indicators that she had more children with John?

According to family stories, John was an amateur "actor". It's possible that's how they met.

I need to check the marriage date compared to the birth date now that I know about son J (who may still be alive as he was, according to one of the articles on the blood transfusion service, in 2008). Perhaps there's a hint about the timing and nature of Gertrude's first marriage in that timeline.

(My husband's grandfather was in Canada by the time Gertrude & John married and, as far as I know, he never went back to England so it doesn't surprise me that there as so many shades of grey in the family knowledge on this side of the pond.)

[MonicaL]

Remember we are making guesses here which would all need to be confirmed in some way (likely via certificates unless connected family is able to help and shine the light here).

Certainly seems likely that we do have potentially the correct details for Gertrude but we are missing likely some key facts still. One thing that might help is for you to check the death cert of JR Copland from 1949 as this might give some clues regarding his wife.

The death notice in the Scotsman on 30 March 1949 certainly made no reference to his wife, only his son.

Monica