Author Topic: Wildermoth/Wildermouth  (Read 12317 times)

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #9 on: Friday 10 February 12 12:23 GMT (UK) »
Hi Fred

I managed to find a full copy of the book , which only showed partially on google books, on a site called archive.org, which was 'Les Protestants d'autrefois:sur mer et outre mer' by Henry Luhr originally published in 1907. This roughly translates as "The Protestants of Past Times, On and Over Seas."

This seems to be a work of research into 'forgotten' Protestant heroes of France, both natives and foreign born, and there is a 4 page section on Maria Jean Von Hügel's father (which seems to suggest their branch of the family at least were Protestants). Her father is never named in full but was born circa 1737 in the parish of St Guilliame, Strasbourg, France, (Where his father Brigadier Von Hügel was based) and joined the army as an officer at 16. He was sent to India and distinguished himself in 1760 in the rank of captain at the seige of Madras, and went on to command his own regiment of French Hussars in India which fought alongside Hyder Ali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyder_Ali) and The Dutch East india Company against the British East India Company in the two Mysore Wars.

Maria Jean was actually born out in India, in Tranquebar, in 1767, and sent back to Strasbourg to be bought up by her grandparents, the Brigadier Von Hügel and his wife. She was married to Jean Henri Wildermouth in May 1784, when he was based in Strasbourg as a Major in The Duc de Sang Sang's Strasbourg regiment. The only extra information given on him (Wildermouth) is he was a holder of the French  Military Cross, and that he was the primary source of information the author had on the life of Marie Jean's father Captain Von Hügel. Apparantly the Captian had died in India some time before 1788, and at that time back in France the ageing Brigadier Von Hügel  was concerned for his grandaughter's future well being and therefore desired his own military pension of 150 Francs a year to transfer to her on his death (he was 77 at the time). Wildermouth wrote on his wife's behalf to the Minister of War to add weight to the Brigadier's plea with the account of her father's sterling service on behalf of the French Crown in India, and his subsequent ill treatment by the Dutch East India Company, but the outbreak of the French revolution the following year seems to have meant his plea went without any official reply. (Though of course we do know by 1831-3 she was on a state pension double that of her late grandfather so all seems to have worked out well in the end).


Of course since Marie outlived her husband, and from his army records he was likely considerably older than her, around 40-45 at the time of their marriage, and she 17,  it is unlikely if Jean Henri is your man's father, she was the mother. I'm thinking perhaps she was a second marriage to the father and stepmother to any existing children?



Also I assume you have already downloaded the existant baptisms for the family at IFHF website? www.rootsireland.ie/

They have the following baptisms showing:

Church Baptism    Wildermoth    James       1828    Roscrea  Parish (Roman Catholic) Co. Tipperary  (fathers first name William)

Church Baptism    Wildermothy    Michael    1834    Roscrea  Parish (Roman Catholic) Co. Tipperary  (fathers first name William)


Church Baptism    Wildermouth    Daniel       1837    Roscrea  Parish (Roman Catholic) Co. Tipperary  (fathers first name William)



Full details cost 5 Euros to view if you havn't already.


There is also this:

Church Baptism    Wildermuth    Elizabeth    1804    Parish of Birr  Church of Ireland (Protestant Anglican) Co. Offaly       (fathers first name John)


It is a Protestant baptism, but not far from Roscrea, about 15miles/20km North.  Cant' find the 1787 Belfast marriage on the site, but presumably that would have been Protestant too, as I do not believe Catholic marriages were legal  in Ireland until the emancipation acts of the 1820's (though I stand to be corrected there)


Anyway certainly a fascinating family here, and pleased to have been able to help in some way. Do keep us updated with any progress with Jean Henri's military records. I would be interested to know if my hunch is right in linking these families. Certainly the French sources nearly always spell it 'Wildermouth', which as you say was far less common form on the continent than Wildermuth, and in itself seems to add some weight to the theory the two families in France and Ireland are linked.

Regards

Richard


Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #10 on: Friday 10 February 12 13:47 GMT (UK) »
Just to add.

In regards the link to Neuchâtel, that is interesting. Neuchâtel (in modern Switzderland) was a very important centre of early Protestantism, especially Calvisnism, in Europe. When searching for Jean Henri yesterday I did find a much earlier reference to the family name linked to that city a good 200-250 years prior to the time frame we have been looking at in the early 16th century.

A Jacob Wildermuth :

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4KQRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA320&dq=%22jacob+wildermuth%22&hl=en&ei=-hE0T7_uGqnK0QXeq8iYAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-thumbnail&resnum=1&ved=0CDMQ6wEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22jacob%20wildermuth%22&f=false

Seems to have been quite an important figure. This does of course seem to be slightly at odds with the Swedish origin for Jean Henri, but as you say they got about a bit!
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline fred21

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Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 12 February 12 01:10 GMT (UK) »
Thanks so much richarde1979

all the info you have given as just been great and has given me alot to to look into.

I have contacted the French Defense Department from the link you gave so hopefully I will hear back from them about Jean Henri's military record.

I found a paragraph in a German book about a Farel Wildermouth in 1531.  Sounds like Farel was some kind of title, maybe religious as the book said he was a priest.  I think he could be Jacob Wildermuth that you mention or if not maybe another distant relative.

I will also still try  some resources in Ireland to see if I can found out anything more about Jean Christopher and his son J William, since one married and died there and the other was born there, there must be some information about them somewhere.  I might try looking into the Kilkenny led as this is where J.  William stated that he was born on his military enlistment papers.

thanks so much once again.

Hopefully by putting this on this forum I can get some more leads and maybe help someone else.
Wildermoth/Wildermouth (Ireland, England, France); Byrne, Whelan, Keenan (Ireland); Ellis (Cornwall); Bambrough (Durham), Newman (Durham and Norfolk); Watson (Durham); Mattison (Yorkshire); Kirker (New Zealand and Ireland); Pirie (Scotland); Campton (unknown);

Offline augustm

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Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #12 on: Monday 26 January 15 09:14 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I have been reading the posts here on the ancestry of the Jean Christopher Wildermouth. I am one of the New Zealand ancestors with John William Wildermoth being my Great-Grandfather. My sisters and I would be very grateful for any information on the family tree you are able to share as we have limited information.


Offline BallyaltikilliganG

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Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #13 on: Monday 26 January 15 16:45 GMT (UK) »
Are you connected to this William listed in Griffiths Valuation Record Information farming over 2 acres He is the only named Wildermoth or Wildermouth listed in this vast but incomplete record
Tenant
Family Name 1   WILDERMOTH
Forename 1   WILLIAM
Landlord
Family Name 2   PALMER
Forename 2   HUMPHRY
Location
County   QUEEN'S
Barony   CLARMALLAGH
Union   DONAGHMORE
Parish   AGHABOE
Townland   GARRYDUFF
Place Name   GARRYDUFF
Place Type   TOWNLAND
Publication Details
Position on Page   8
Printing Date   1850
Act   9&10
Sheet Number   28
Map Reference   2a
That last reference should show where the homestead was and it boundaries. This William has his Land house etc valued at #£3 per annum a lot more than others who were value d at 5 shillings the source is www.askaboutireland.com then open the GRIFFITH VALUATION SECTION.  Updates to the property change of ownership  should exist in NI they are at the PRONI, suggesting in Dublin they will be at National Archives of Ireland Dublin.
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Offline BallyaltikilliganG

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Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #14 on: Monday 26 January 15 17:09 GMT (UK) »
Genes Reunited have many individuals listed. You need to join to  ask the tree holder for permission to look at their listing, this will show you how many interested parties there are, including a Richard!
Daniel    Wildermoth    1875   Washdyke, Ireland ...    No    Fiona   [Washdyke NZ ?]
Daniel    Wildermoth    1875   Washdyke, Ireland ...    No    Stephanie
Margaret    Wildermoth    1841   Laois ...    No    Stuart   
Margaret    Wildermoth    1841   Laois ...    No    Teresa   
Margaret    Wildermoth    1841   Laois ...    No    Gordon   
Margaret    Wildermoth    1841   Ire ...    No    Lance   
Margaret    Wildermoth    1841   , Laois, , Ireland, ...    No    Chris   
Daniel    Wildermoth    1837   Roscrea, Ireland ...    No    Penny   
Daniel    Wildermoth    1837   Ireland ...    No    Fiona   
Daniel    Wildermoth    1837   Ireland ...    No    Elsa   
Daniel    Wildermoth    1837   Ireland ...    No    Joanne   
Daniel    Wildermoth    1837    ...    No    Lance   
Daniel    Wildermoth    1837    ...    No    Chris   
Margaret    Wildermoth    1830    ...    No    Joanne   
James    Wildermoth    1828   Roscrea, Ireland ...    No    Penny   
James    Wildermoth    1828   Rosecrea?, Ireland ...    No    Fiona   
James    Wildermoth    1828   Roscrea And Kyle, Ir...    No    Stephanie   
James    Wildermoth    1828   Ireland ...    No    Elsa   
James    Wildermoth    1828   Roscrea And Kyle, Ir...    No    Joanne
James    Wildermoth    1828   Roscrea And Kyle, Ti...    No    Lance   
James    Wildermoth    1828   Kyle, Laois, Ireland...    No    Chris   
John    Wildermoth    1826   Ireland ...    No    Patricia   
John    Wildermoth    1826   Roscrea, County Tipp...    No    Penny   
John    Wildermoth    1826   Roscrea, Tipperary, ...    No    Fiona   
John    Wildermoth    1826   Rosecrea, Ireland ...    No    Stephanie   
John    Wildermoth    1826   Rosecrea, Tipperary,...    No    Elsa   
John    Wildermoth    1826   Rosecrea, Ireland ...    No    Joanne   
John    Wildermoth    1826   Roscrea Ireland ...    No    Joanne   
John    Wildermoth    1826   In Or Near Roscrea, ...    No    Lance   
John    Wildermoth    1826   Rosecrea,,,,, ...    No    Peter   
John    Wildermoth    1826   Roscrea, Tipperary, ...    No    Chris   
John    Wildermoth    1826   Ireland ...    No    Peter   
John    Wildermoth    1826   Rosecrea,Ireland. ...    No    Steven   
John    Wildermoth    1826   Tipperary, Ireland ...    No    Sean
Mary    Wildermoth    1825   Ireland ...    No    Elsa   
Mary    Wildermoth    1825   Ireland ...    No    Joanne   
Mary    Wildermoth    1825   Ire ...    No    Lance
Mary    Wildermoth    1825   Ireland ...    No    Chris   
John    Wildermoth    1787   Ireland ...    No    Patricia   
John    Wildermoth    1787   Tipperary Ireland ...    No    Stephanie   
Jean    Wildermoth    1787   Kilkenny, Ireland ...    No    Chris   
J    Wildermoth    1787   Dunkirk ...    No    Richard   
J    Wildermoth    1787   Kilkenny, Ireland ...    No    Elsa   
j    Wildermoth    1787   Ireland Kilkenny ...    No    James   
J    Wildermoth    1787   Kilkenny, Ire ...    No    Lance   
J.    Wildermoth    1787   Rosecrea, Tipperary ...    No    Fiona   
J. William    Wildermoth    1787   Kilkenny, Ireland ...    No    Penny
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Offline David Tapp

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Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 04 August 15 21:53 BST (UK) »
John Wildermoth 1826 was my great grandfather.  He and his wife, Sarah, are buried at Timaru, New Zealand.  He was a policeman.
My grandfather was Michael Joseph Wildermoth, one of John's sons.  My mother was Beryl Ellen Mary Wildermoth, one of Michael's daughters.
My mother always said that Wildermoth was a German name, but none of us believed it.  Perhaps it was.
I have become interested in the family since it is 100 years since John Layton Wildermoth was killed in the war on Gallipoli.  John was the son of Michael, the brother of Beryl and therefore, my uncle.  My daughter and I are going to Gallipoli in October to acknowledge what he did for us.

Offline dathai

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Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 04 August 15 22:40 BST (UK) »

Offline fred21

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Re: Wildermoth/Wildermouth
« Reply #17 on: Monday 07 August 17 02:57 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all the replies.  Yes I am on GenesReunited and have contacted everyone who is related to this family.

And yes that William in the Griffiths is the Wiliam who was a soldier.

I still haven't managed to get any way further with J. William and his parents Jean Christopher Wildermoth and Anne Keenan.

So far for certain I have a copy of J Wiliam's military papers which state that he was born in or around the parish of Kilkenny in 1787 and that he enlisted in the 62 Regiment of the Foot when he was 10 years old in Poole, Dorsetshire.

Most of the information about Jean Christopher is at the moment only vague (from family stories, Mormon IG etc.).

I do know that he had another child, a daughter Elizabeth who was born in 1804 in the Parish of Birr, County Offaly, Ireland (under the last name of Wildermuth).  Jean Christopher's name is down as John which would be the anglicised version of his name so he may be in records somewhere as John Wildermoth.  I am hoping that I can find out what regiments were in Kilkenny in 1787 and in Birr in 1804 and then go through them to see if I can find what regiment he was in as it seems he may have been a soldier.

Any further ideas of how I can trace this line of this family would be great appreciated as it's a brick wall that none of us have been able to break through
Wildermoth/Wildermouth (Ireland, England, France); Byrne, Whelan, Keenan (Ireland); Ellis (Cornwall); Bambrough (Durham), Newman (Durham and Norfolk); Watson (Durham); Mattison (Yorkshire); Kirker (New Zealand and Ireland); Pirie (Scotland); Campton (unknown);