Help Please: Arms of Sykes of Driglington & Sledmere

[genealogistsykes]

Hello all,

I have just been researching the various Sykes Baronets across England and have come across something quite odd. It seems that the Sykes of Sledmere and the Sykes of Driglington have exactly the same Coat of Arms but have different crest, does anybody why?

Sykes of Driglington:
Arms: Argent, a chevron sable, between three heraldic fountains, or sykes.
Crest: A bull, passant, proper, charged on the shoulder with an heraldic fountain.

Sykes of Sledmere:
Arms: Argent, a chevron sable, between three heraldic fountains.
Crest: A demi river deity rising from reeds, blowing a shell, and wreathed about the temples with wreaths, proper.

Sledmere is in East Yorkshire, and Driglington is in West Yorkshire.

Maybe they are related?

Any information on this matter would be much appreciated.

Kind Regards,

GenealogistSykes

[KGarrad]

Presumably you have read the Papers of the Sykes Family of Sledmere?

http://archiveshub.ac.uk/features/0601sykes.html

[genealogistsykes]

I have just read quite a bit of it now, thanks.

[RobinClay]

It seems that the Sykes of Sledmere and the Sykes of Driglington have exactly the same Coat of Arms but have different crest, does anybody why?

It is an individual who has Arms, not a family !

Have a look at
http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/Faq.htm

[genealogistsykes]

but the amrs can be passed down a long with the title. This would mean that the Sykes of Driglington are a branch from the Sykes' of Sledmere. Why would the two different families have the same arms? Getting rather confused now.

[RobinClay]

[Sigh]  I suggested you have a look at
http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/Faq.htm

Had you done so, you would have read, "There is no such thing as a 'coat of arms for a surname'. Many people of the same surname will often be entitled to completely different coats of arms, and many of that surname will be entitled to no coat of arms. Coats of arms belong to individuals. For any person to have a right to a coat of arms they must either have had it granted to them or be descended in the legitimate male line from a person to whom arms were granted or confirmed in the past."

Suppose that an armiger has two sons.  They are entitled to use that "basic" coat of arms, but obviously cannot use an identical version.  So the elder son would inherit his father's, but the younger son would chose a "difference" - a different crest, perhaps.  I'm sure there are specific rules that govern this.  e.g. a "bend sinister" signifies bastardy, IIRC.

Also, a design may be appropriated (with changes) by another family with the same name - subject, of course, to the Herald's advice and acceptance.

That's how *I* see it; but I'm probably wrong.

I suggest you seek the help of Google.

[RobinClay]

See also
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,254381.0.html

[KGarrad]

There's also Cadency!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadency

But, in practice, cadenncy marks or labels were usually ignored.
The Royal Family is an exception!

[behindthefrogs]

[Sigh]  I suggested you have a look at
http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/Faq.htm

Suppose that an armiger has two sons.  They are entitled to use that "basic" coat of arms, but obviously cannot use an identical version.  So the elder son would inherit his father's, but the younger son would chose a "difference" - a different crest, perhaps.  I'm sure there are specific rules that govern this.  e.g. a "bend sinister" signifies bastardy, IIRC.

A change of crest is not usually regarded as a "difference" between two coats of arms.  Any difference is usually part of the shield.  If both of these shields are correctly described then one should have been inherited from the other.

The possibility is that one of the shields has not been approved by the College of Arms.  What is the origin of the two blazons that you quoted?

It was not unusual for someone to adopt the crest from the arms of a wife's father.  I would expect the Sledmere arms to be later than the Driglington arms.