William Carter

[Maddie]

Thank you Matthew, shame it hasn't helped. It's unbelievable, we have a name or names, a birth date, a rough area of Wandsworth if the boys were born in Summerstown as Charlotte says they were & yet there is nothing to pick up on. Makes you wonder if they were ever registered.

Regarding Edwin & his dying in WW1 there is only one that could be him on CWGC as the others are not of the correct age & do seem to have extra info. Edwin George Wheeler of the Royal Warwickshire Reg died 25/4/1915, no age given for him but I have found that he was living in Birmingham at Balsall Heath when he signed up.

I agree it is a strange coincidence that Charlotte & her daughter Alice both died in 1916.

Have you found the deaths of William & Charlotte Carter nee Curtis. If not William died 19th August 1900 of Lillian Road, Barnes Surrey & Charlotte died 16 April 1903 of East Molesey Surrey, both are on the National Probate Calender.

I tried to find them in 1891 to see if daughter Charlotte was with them but the only family I could find who could be them are a George W Carter aged 74 a Florist born Islington, wife Emma aged 59 a Milliner born Sheringham Norfolk & a daughter aged 19 with just the initial H (Henriette) born Herts. They are living in Barnes Surrey. Talk about confusing.......

By the way, still no sign of Charlotte.

Maddie

[MAAllen]

Hi Maddie,

I was able to look at Robert B. Simmon's army record yesterday at the library. Gosh, what a mess it all was. I see that after Alice had been abandoned by him and began to suffer from TB (c. 1915) she went to live with her grandmother in Harrington Street. As both her grandmothers were dead by then I've no idea who this could be.

I was also able to speak with Frederick Harry's daughter yesterday. She showed me a book given to him by Hannah Cecilia Charlotte in 1906 which she inscribed 'to Freddey Wheeler'. I was also told that when Frederick Harry was very young (about the time this book had been given) he was made to choose as to whether he would live with his mother or father. As Hannah Cecilia Charlotte married Alfred Ernest in 1907 I can only guess that HCC broke with FH's father shortly before marrying Alfred Ernest. Interestingly HCC calls FH 'Wheeler' before her second Wheeler marriage. Yet FH's daughter said he always spoke of his father as being an Anglican minister called George Williams .....

All very confusing ! But there's nothing like a mystery !

[Maddie]

Hi Matthew

I hadn't actually read all of Simmons records until today, oh my goodness poor Alice, how sad for her.

Have looked at the Electoral Rolls for Harrington Street but unfortunately the nearest I can find is 1911 when a William Wretham & a Hermann Stanzleit were in occupancy, there's nothing for the war years & of course no females were on the rolls any way. I wonder if Alice's grandmother as mentioned in Simmons records could actually have been her mother who had moved to London to look after her when she had to leave the Warwick.

Surely if FH & Edwin had had an Anglican Minister for a father they must have been registered at birth & you would think christened.

As you say, it is all very puzzling & I love a good mystery.

Next step is to try & find the elusive "George Williams".

Maddie

[MAAllen]

Just thinking about Harrington Street and HCC Wheeler living there - it's in / near an area called Somers Town - I wonder if this is the 'Summerstown' mentioned on the 1911 census as FH's birthplace rather than the actual 'Summerstown' in south London???

I've ordered HCC's 1907 marriage certificate so hopefully that will shed some light!

[Maddie]

Hi Matthew

Now that is a point you have there, Somers Town is a 9 minute walk away from Harrington Street according to Google maps. Could be an interesting piece of info.

I was thinking about the reverend George Williams & wonder if he actually came from Wales which is why Charlotte is in Wales for her marriage in 1907. Williams is a Welsh name isn't it. I haven't yet found  a clergyman that fits on any census apart from one in Sheffield but he does seem to have lived in Sheffield for a long time as he has children born there.

Be interesting to see what the marriage cert has to say.

Maddie

[MAAllen]

Hi Maddie,

I've just got the marriage certificate. Both Ernest Alfred and Hannah Cecilia are living at 1 Mountjoy Street, Newport in 1907. Her father, William Carter (deceased) is 'of independent means'. She is described as a widow.

Ernest Alfred gives his age as 38 years old and his father as Arthur Wheeler, a general labourer.

So, some information which may shed more light. Let's see if it brings anything up.

[Maddie]

Hi Matthew

Doesn't get any easier, does it.

So, Charlotte did say she was a widow, well, perhaps after 20 odd years of being separated from Joshua she had the right.....

It's certainly looking like Ernest/Alfred was the son of Arthur & Emmeline Wheeler baptised 28th April 1878 Worplesden Guildford Surrey. He is with his parents & siblings in 1891 still living in Worplesden next door to the Ship Inn, his father Arthur is a Labourer.

I have found a little more for Ernest, (looking like you need another trip to the library or a few credits ) he joined the Queens RSW Regiment in Oct 1896 but was discharged for misconduct in Dec 1896, being drunk & disorderly.

Then he tried the Royal Artillery in 1898 but was again discharged in 1899, I think it was for not declaring his previous service history.

I can't find him after 1891 in the census until 1911 & neither himself or Charlotte were at 1 Mountjoy Street Newport in 1901.

I'm pretty sure he died in Guildford reg district September qtr 1928 aged 50.

I shall keep digging.

Maddie

[Maddie]

Hi Matthew

I have found something which sounds impossible but felt it was worth mentioning if only to rule people out of this mystery.

In 1891 & 1901 there is a George M Williams who is the Clerk in Holy Orders at the Church of St Madoc in Llanbadoc, he is also the rector of Llanowell, living at the rectory Llanowell. From what I can gather he is an Anglican Minister. He was the Vicar at St Madoc from 1883.

George was born in 1853 Clapham Surrey & his full name was George Micaiah Williams, his father was George Walter Williams a Colonel +CB in the Indian Army. The strange thing is that George M married a Laura Gustard in July 1888 at Llanbadoc, Laura was a Minor at marriage & born 1870 in Usk. They had one daughter Dorothy Lucy born December 1892 in Llanllowell. Next they are in Bridgenorth Shropshire & he is the Vicar at St Peter's in Chelmarsh.

George died in 1929 Bridgenorth, I can't pick up on Laura's death but daughter Dorothy Lucy also died in Bridgenorth 1979, she never married.

I can't imagine that this George Williams could have anything to do with your Charlotte & her boys but there is the fact that he lived in Monmouthshire, was a Vicar & quite possibly an Anglican one at that.

What do you make of it all, could it be feasible that Charlotte was in Wales for any length of time before she married Ernest/Alfred.

Be interested in your thoughts.
Maddie

[MAAllen]

Hi Maddie,

I'm not if Charlotte was in Wales before her son Harry's birth - he was said to be born in Bermondsey you see - and with him and Edwin listed in 1911 with London birthplaces in the 1890s .... I think she probably went to Wales with Alfred Ernest Wheeler.

It seems very odd to me that Joshua and Charlotte are both absent from the 1891 census and there's no trace of them in 1901 either; nor of Harry and Edwin. The only record I have of Edwin anywhere is the 1911 census. His niece tells me he was always called Ted - so I wonder if he was really Edward???

I also can't find the original William Carter in 1891 and haven't found a marriage for him and Charlotte Curtis either.....

I think a new step might be for me to get Charlotte's death certificate from 1916 in London - Alice was there that year and died there, but I wonder if there was another reason she was there.

I'm beginning to think this particular group of the family gathered round on census night and thought it might be fun to confuse their descendants a hundred years hence ....

I'll keep searching - they must have been somewhere!