Author Topic: William Carter  (Read 11536 times)

Offline Maddie

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Re: William Carter
« Reply #45 on: Monday 01 December 14 22:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matthew

This really is a puzzle which is why I am looking at all angels in the hope that something will drop into place. :-\

I'm amazed that we can't find any of them in 1891 or 1901, I still haven't found Ernest/Alfred in 1901. I think you are right in thinking they all hid from the census enumerator. :D

The only possible sighting of William Carter & wife Charlotte in 1891 is the one I spoke of before although their names are wrong but ages & birth places are near enough.

George W Carter aged 74 born London Islington
Emma Carter aged 59 born Sheringham Norfolk (a stones throw from Cromer)
H Carter daughter aged 19 born Herts (just an initial no first name)

They are living at White Lodge Terrace Barnes Surrey & Barnes is where William died, Charlotte is with her daughter Jessie in 1901 in Barnes, a widow. ???

I also cannot find a marriage for William & Charlotte but did they ever marry, is that perhaps why all the children have the Curtis name as well as Carter. As William was born in 1818 he could well have been married before he met Charlotte & they had Jessie in 1855.

There is a marriage record on Free BMD in June qtr 1857 St Giles that does include a Charlotte Curtis & a JAMES Carter but unfortunately I can only find it on Free BMD, nothing on Ancestry to see which groom married which bride. Strange thing is William is William J Carter on the 1871 in Harpenden. ::)

I don't know if Charlotte's death cert will help in any of this but I'm sure it's worth getting if only to find where she was & perhaps why.

I am puzzled over the fact that Harry was asked if he wanted to go live with his father before Charlotte married Ernest/Alfred, that is strange. Obviously Charlotte was never married to George Williams or the boys would have that surname which is another odd aspect with George being an Anglican Vicar surely he would not be living with someone who wasn't his wife or not be married to the mother of his children, unless there was a reason that prevented this happening. :-\

All very peculiar but intriguing. There must be an answer out there somewhere. :)

Maddie
Beament, Hertfordshire, Middlesex, Canada, USA.
Brown, Herts & Berkshire
Hester, Oxfordshire
Wise, Berkshire
Dwight, Buckinghamshire
Warrell/Worrel, Bucks & Herts
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MAAllen

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Re: William Carter
« Reply #46 on: Monday 15 December 14 12:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi Maddie,

I received today the death certificate of Hannah CC Wheeler. She died of uterine cancer in a cancer hospital in Chelsea. She was living at 10 Holly Road, Chiswick and is described as the widow of Joshua Wheeler. EA Wheeler was evidently off the scene by then.... Her sister Jessica was present at her death.

I think the mystery of Edwin and Harry's father is going to continue!

Offline Maddie

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Re: William Carter
« Reply #47 on: Monday 15 December 14 12:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matthew

The mystery deepens, how strange that Charlotte is described as the widow of Joshua & not Ernest. :o. It's as if the marriage in Wales didn't exist. :-\ All very peculiar & looking like there is more to be discovered if we can find it. ??? I wonder when she returned to London.?

Intrigued, Maddie
Beament, Hertfordshire, Middlesex, Canada, USA.
Brown, Herts & Berkshire
Hester, Oxfordshire
Wise, Berkshire
Dwight, Buckinghamshire
Warrell/Worrel, Bucks & Herts
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline MAAllen

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Re: William Carter
« Reply #48 on: Sunday 28 December 14 11:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi Maddie,

More mystery! I've found a record for a marriage between Charlotte Wheeler and a Stephen Chapman in Islington in 1891. She is listed as a widow, her father is William Carter, a shop keep and her address 35 North Street, Islington. The witnesses to the marriage are George and Jessie Munt, so it's certainly her. Stephen Chapman, born c. 1863, is a miner and living at 27 Wharfdale Road.

They're together in the 1891 census at Wharfdale Road, Hannah Charlotte is listed as 'Anna' and her birthplace Writtle, Essex. They have a daughter, Emily Cecilia, born in 1886. I presume Emily is also Hannah Charlotte Cecilia's daughter but can't be sure.

I'd hoped that this would finally solve the riddle of Harry and Edwin's father but .... there's also a marriage for Stephen Chapman in 1892 in Tottenham with all the same details at the man who married HCC - 28, father Stephen Chapman, occupation miner.

Still no joy on finding HCC, Harry or Edwin in 1901, or indeed Stephen Chapman.

So, it gets even more mysterious - HCC seems to have married twice whilst her first husband was still alive, and the first of those bigamous marriages lasting only a year. Odd too that Jessie Munt was a witness to the Chapman wedding, but when she informed for HCC's death certificate she states Charlotte is the widow of Joshua Wheeler, not Chapman or EA Wheeler!

I'll keep trying to find them in 1901. And maybe see if Charlotte's address on the 1891 marriage entry is where we find William Carter & family ....

What complicated lives these people had!!!!

Offline Maddie

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Re: William Carter
« Reply #49 on: Sunday 28 December 14 11:36 GMT (UK) »
Ye gods & little fishes Matthew, what a complicated life your lady lived, how did she do that. :o

Well done for finding that marriage, well, I think so any way. ;) I shall be back when I have had chance to look at this new evidence.

Maddie :)
Beament, Hertfordshire, Middlesex, Canada, USA.
Brown, Herts & Berkshire
Hester, Oxfordshire
Wise, Berkshire
Dwight, Buckinghamshire
Warrell/Worrel, Bucks & Herts
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Maddie

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Re: William Carter
« Reply #50 on: Tuesday 30 December 14 00:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matthew

I have found the 2 marriages & have to say that it seems impossible it can be the same Stephen Chapman on both & as there are 2 chaps of the same name born in Cambridgeshire c1863 with a father Stephen I have tried to distinguish between them both. The Stephen who married Charlotte appears to be the son of Stephen & Emma whereas the other has a mother Martha. They both work on the railway but only your one is listed as a Minor, the other one is a Clerk. From the 1881 Stephen (Minor) is living in Warlingham Surrey with an aunt & uncle & the other one is in Oxted Surrey. From the 1891 the one in Oxted in 1881 seems to be in St Pancras workhouse. Hope I haven't confused you. :D It is looking as if it is the same Stephen who married Sarah Footitt but how. :o The marriage to Charlotte can't have been annulled surely & even if it had from what I have read it didn't give either party the right to remarry any way.

Like yourself I cannot find Stephen & Sarah on the 1901 so have they fled the country I wonder. :-\ Strange thing, I was looking for any Stephen Chapman on Ancestry & as at the moment there is free access to all their records a Stephen Chapman turned up in the Australian Electoral Rolls for 1909 in Victoria in a place called Clementston, sub division of Allendale & he was a Minor, must be a coincidence surely. ???

The daughter of Stephen & Charlotte was registered in Edmonton district 1st qtr 1886 with the name Emily Cecilia C Chapman so I'm guessing she is Charlotte's daughter but born before the marriage. I don't think I have ever come across such a complicated web before. :)

No sign of Emily in 1901 but she is in the next census born Tottenham & living in Kensington. Let me know if you can't find her.

Going back to Charlotte's marriage to Stephen did you spot the Banns where Charlotte is given as a Spinster. :-\ As she gave her fathers occupation as a shop keeper would that fall in with the Carter family I found in 1891 in Barnes Surrey, George W Carter born Islington aged 74 & a Florist. :) (Details in a previous post)

If there is any info here that would be more helpful to you if I expanded on it do please say.

I shall go back to searching & confuse myself some more. ;)

Maddie
Beament, Hertfordshire, Middlesex, Canada, USA.
Brown, Herts & Berkshire
Hester, Oxfordshire
Wise, Berkshire
Dwight, Buckinghamshire
Warrell/Worrel, Bucks & Herts
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk