William Carter

[[Ray]]

Hi

I'll mention it in case it matters another time . . . . .

I believe a William Carter was the Headmaster (at changeover) of the school which became Watford Boys Grammar School.

(with any luck, making the comment may trigger something  )

Ray

[Andy Raggett]

Hi Andy

A good idea to have a look through the electoral rolls, all though, if he was of no fixed abode he may not show on them.

Sorry about the mention of the police, it was just a thought I had,  He should still be on the census though..............

Maddie

Hi Maddie,

Don't be sorry about the mentioning the police, it is an interesting lead. Besides if he did end up "helping them with their enquiries" that is history and nothing can be done to change it.

I am surprised to have read in the past of some people feeling ashamed that their ancestors couldn't read or write. As it would appear that quite a few of my forebears on the Brinklow side were agricultural labourers, it go's that they probably were illiterate and really shouldn't come as too much of a shock.


With regard to having a look at the electoral registers. I am sure WJC Carter must have been somewhere between 1900 and his death in 1934. So what I propose to do is pick a few years pre WW1 and may be some years in the mid 20s to see if I can find him anywhere, and then see what pops up. The one place that he might appear in is the Watford Union.

Andy

[Andy Raggett]

Hi

I'll mention it in case it matters another time . . . . .

I believe a William Carter was the Headmaster (at changeover) of the school which became Watford Boys Grammar School.

(with any luck, making the comment may trigger something  )

Ray

Ok, thanks Ray, worth remembering.

[MAAllen]

Hello,

I'm not sure if this is still active....

I am descended from William Carter from both his daughters Hannah Cecilia Charlotte Curtis Carter (b. 1857 and appearing in the census most often as 'Charlotte Carter') and her sister Jessie Maria Charlotte Curtis Carter.

I too have never been able to find a birth record for William, nor a marriage with Charlotte Carter. Hannah Cecilia Charlotte also disappears from the 1891 and 1901 census, having married a Joshua Wheeler in 1878. She then reappears in 1911 in Wales with two sons Harry and Edwin and a second husband Alfred Ernest Wheeler (of whom I can find nothing). I cannot find any birth records for Harry or Edwin.

Any help or further information would be super.

Matthew

[Maddie]

Hi Matthew

A warm welcome to RootsChat.

Unfortunately neither of the previous posters have been on line for a while but if their e-mails are still active they should get notification of your post.

In the meantime I will try & help if I can.

Have you found Joshua in the 1911 census in Lancashire, I'm assuming he is the one born Harpenden c1849 & also do you have info for the children born to Joshua & Charlotte. I ask only because I don't know what info you already have for the family, I can then concentrate on looking for Charlotte's missing years.

Maddie

[MAAllen]

Maddie,

Thanks so much for your reply. I hadn't actually looked for Joshua on the 1911 census (which I don't have full access too...). As Hannah Cecilia Charlotte remarried in 1907 to Alfred Ernest Wheeler I assumed he had died. How interesting.

On the 1881 census Charlotte and Joshua (listed as Josiah) have two children; Alice and George William. In 1911 Hannah Charlotte Cecilia has two children; Edwin and Harry (from whom I descend) both born in the mid-1890s and listed as Alfred Ernest's step-sons.

I'm wondering at the moment what happened between Hannah Cecilia Charlotte and Joshua and whether he is the father of Edwin and Harry. Also I wonder what relation Alfred Ernest was to Joshua. I see from an 1884 newspaper article that Joshua went to court accused of trying to kill Hannah Cecilia Charlotte whilst they were living in Wheathampstead!

Any light you could shed would be great!

Matthew

[Maddie]

Hi Matthew

I had a look at the newspaper report on Joshua, well I never, he doesn't appear to have been sentenced to any prison time but I wonder if the couple did separate after this incident. He is single & in Salford Workhouse in the last census so they certainly split sometime. His age is slightly out being born c1844 but Harpenden seems correct. Looking at Free BMD his death looks to be registered Sept qtr 1915 Prestwich.

Do you have Charlotte's marriage cert to Alfred, I wonder if she is a "widow" on it, I can't see a divorce for her & Joshua so it looks like she may have been telling porkies.

Their daughter, Alice Martha Charlotte baptised 30 Jan 1880 at Harpenden is a servant on the 1891 in the household of George Holderness at St Peters Street, St Peters, St Albans. On March 1st 1909 she marries Robert Benjamin Simmons in Paddington, naming her father as Joshua a Bricklayer.

Son George aged 12 & born Harpenden, is in Watford Union Workhouse in 1891 but there is also a Henry Wheeler with him, aged 9 & born Middlesex, wonder if he is another son or just a coincidence that they are together. In 1901 George appears to be in the Royal Navy & stationed at Sheerness.

At the mo Joshua & Charlotte are eluding me after 1881 until 1911 but I shall keep digging. I have a feeling Charlotte could well be living under a different name. A strange coincidence that she should marry another Wheeler who at present doesn't seem to be connected to Joshua as Alfred was born Surrey, well according to the census any way.

Maddie

[MAAllen]

Hi Maddie,

Thanks for all that ! I don't have the marriage certificate for Alfred Ernest and Charlotte - it would be interesting to see on it where she was living and indeed if she was a 'widow'.

I found an army service record for Joshua before his 1878 marriage to Charlotte. He was discharged because of a hernia, but perhaps he joined again later?

In the family it was said that the father of Charlotte's sons Edwin & Harry was a minister named 'George Williams' and that they were born in Bermondsey, but I've never found ant evidence for that. Harry went on to marry the grand-daughter of Charlotte's sister Jessica. Charlotte dies in 1916 in London whilst Harry was fighting in France.

There are a number of births for a Harry Wheeler (always known as Frederick Harry) around 1898 in London, but I've no way of knowing if it's him.

Well, thanks again !

Matthew

[Maddie]

Hi Matthew

I did find Joshua's Military info prior to his marriage but I can't see any other records for him. From the census Edwin & Harry were born in Summerstown, I'm guessing that's the Wandsworth one.

I shall keep looking in the hope that either Joshua or Charlotte might turn up.

Maddie