Author Topic: Robert Jones  (Read 4962 times)

Offline paul1801

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Robert Jones
« on: Friday 16 March 12 20:49 GMT (UK) »
Not sure if anyone can help but here goes,

My Great Grandmother was Ann Jones b1857 Mold Flintshire Wales, she marries Matthew Worthington in Wigan Lancashire in 1876 they then move to Crook Co Durham in the 1881 and 1891 census records.

I have her marriage cert which states her father is Robert Jones (deceased) coal miner, the two witnesses are from the Worthington family.

I can not find her in the 1871 census and the only one which seems to match in the 1861 census is,

Robert Jones              b1808 Cilcen Flintshire

Elizabeth Jones           b1812 Northop Flintshire

John Jones                 b1839 Mold Flintshire
Thomas Jones            b1850  Gwernaffield
Robert                       b1853  ""
Ann Jones                  b1856  ""

This seems to fit, any ideas anyone,

thanks

Paul
Cutler Derbyshire, Co Durham
Halladay, Durham
Reed, Newcastle, Durham
Mellon/Millon, Ireland, Durham
Dunn, Ireland, Durham
Brett, Ireland, Durham

Offline Shep

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Re: Robert Jones
« Reply #1 on: Friday 16 March 12 21:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Paul,
there is an Ann Jones baptised in Gwernaffield on the 31 Aug 1856.

Her father Roberts occupation is given as 'miner'. Mother was Eliza and their abode was called 'Bellan'. Does that tie in with your census entry?

No other 'Ann Jones' baptisms fit the bill so this looks a good prospect.
Shepherd, Moran, Bath, Keating, Putt - Chester
Trussell - Flint / West Bromwich
Hughes - Flint / Oakenholt
Challinor / Chaloner - Chester / Wirral / Hawarden / Holt
Reynolds - Chester
Edwards - Rossett / Pulford
Strange - Chester / Shropshire
Bayliss - Rossett / Allington / Pulford

Offline paul1801

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Re: Robert Jones
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 17 March 12 15:27 GMT (UK) »

Hi thanks for looking so quick,

 Looking at the 1881 census record Ann is living in Stanley Crook Co Durham with her husband Matthew and the following children,

William J Worthington     b1877  Wigan Lancashire

Matthew Worthington      b1878 Crook Durham

Mary E Worthington         b1880 Mold Wales

It looks as though the family had their first child where they married (Wigan) they then moved to Crook Durham (current address) and then had a daughter in the same area as she (Anne Jones ) was born.

I suppose they could have been visiting family whilst she was pregnant? as in the 1881 census they are all back in Crook Co Durham.

In the 1861 census ANN Jones and her parents and siblings are living at

Llyny Pandu Gwernaffield, the baptism appears to fit as does the occupation of Robert Jones her father, on the marriage cert Anne states her father is a coal miner, on the 1861 census he is a lead miner.

Annes daughter Mary Elizabeth Worthington was born in Mold Holywell in 1879, they were living at Smelt Row in Broncoed Mold, (I sent for her cert as I thought it may have been a mistake on the census)

Broncoed is only about two miles from Gwernaffield,

I think on the weight of evidence I think this must be my Ann, now to see if I can find what happened to her parents or if I can find her in the 1861/1871 census ! :)
Cutler Derbyshire, Co Durham
Halladay, Durham
Reed, Newcastle, Durham
Mellon/Millon, Ireland, Durham
Dunn, Ireland, Durham
Brett, Ireland, Durham

Offline paul1801

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Re: Robert Jones
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 17 March 12 16:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi Paul,
there is an Ann Jones baptised in Gwernaffield on the 31 Aug 1856.

Her father Roberts occupation is given as 'miner'. Mother was Eliza and their abode was called 'Bellan'. Does that tie in with your census entry?

No other 'Ann Jones' baptisms fit the bill so this looks a good prospect.

Hi again,

oddly enough "Bellan" refers to a sickness meaning Lead poisoning which appears a strange name to give to a place/house, although this again ties in to Roberts occupation. :)
Cutler Derbyshire, Co Durham
Halladay, Durham
Reed, Newcastle, Durham
Mellon/Millon, Ireland, Durham
Dunn, Ireland, Durham
Brett, Ireland, Durham


Offline Ardwyn

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Re: Robert Jones
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 17 March 12 20:23 GMT (UK) »
Hi Paul,

Thank you for adding the link to my 'Jones family from Gwernaffield' post. I’ve done a lot of research on Robert Jones’s family since I posted that and I am convinced that Ann Jones, youngest daughter of Robert Jones and Eliza Owens, married William Edwards and lived at America Farm, Gwernymynydd.

My reasons for this are as follows:

My father in law (who still lives in Gwernymynydd) knows that his grandmother, Ann Jones, came from Gwernaffield.

He also grew up with his ‘Morris cousins’ to whom he was related through this grandmother. I have traced the link between the Morris cousins and this Jones family:

Robert Jones and Eliza Owens had at least 9 children: Mary, John, Ellen, Sarah, Elizabeth, Margaret, Thomas, Robert and Ann.

Sarah Jones (born 10 Jan 1843, baptised 28 Jan 1843 in Mold, Robert Jones was living at Gwysaney, occupation miner at time of baptism) married John Heyes (also spelt Hayes and Haze) on 23 Dec 1867 at the Bethel Chapel, Holywell. One of the witnesses was her sister Ellen.

Sarah and John Heyes had at least 6 children, one of whom, Elizabeth, was born 6 May 1878 in Pantymwyn. By the 1891 census, Sarah had died and Elizabeth was living with Sarah’s sister Ellen and her husband Edward Phillips, a blacksmith in Waen, Gwernaffield. Ann Jones was a witness at Ellen and Edward's marriage in 1878.

Elizabeth Heyes married George Morris on 30 March 1901 in the Bethel Chapel, Mold. Their son John Charles Morris, born 9 March 1903, was my father in law’s ‘Uncle Jack’ and father of the Morris cousins.

Llyn Y Pandy, Bellan, Gwysaney, and Pantymwyn are all close to Gwernaffield.

William Edwards and Ann Jones married in Liverpool in 1883 at the Welsh Presbyterian Chapel, David Street, Toxteth Park. William had moved from America Farm to Liverpool a couple of years earlier. Ann Jones gave her address at marriage as 15 Alton Road, Oxton on the Wirral. Looking at this address on the 1881 census, it was home of the Watson family, a retired merchant and his Chilean wife, so Ann would have been a servant there. Many young, unmarried Welsh girls from this area went to work in service in the Liverpool area at the time. Ann Jones wasn't resident there on the 1881 census, but there is an Ann Jones, born 1855, Mold working as a housemaid at 28 Croxteth Road, Toxteth Park, for the Uppleby family, which may have been her. On the marriage certificate, Ann’s father was given as Robert Jones (deceased) miner. A few years after their marriage they moved back to America Farm and lived there the rest of their lives.

The problem with names in Wales is that there are a much smaller pool of surnames than in England and the range of first names wasn't that huge either. There will have been several Ann Jones born in the Mold area around 1856 and probably more than one of them had a father called Robert. As to his occupation, this was a mining area and a large proportion of the population would have been miners. Most of my husband's ancestors were miners when young and became farmers in old age, if they hadn't died before that.

I hope this is of some help.

Buffy

Arden, Millington, Robinson, Willis - Cheshire
Goodwin, Edwards, Thomas, Jones, Cooper - Flintshire/Denbighshire
Edgoose/Edmunds - Hampshire/Surrey/East Anglia
Arnold/Blundell/Down - Surrey/Dorset/Wiltshire
Hartshorn - Hertfordshire, Kent, London
Self - London/Surrey

Offline paul1801

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Re: Robert Jones
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 18 March 12 19:01 GMT (UK) »

Hi thanks for the very detailed reply, lots of information there, lets assume that this is your Anne,

I will revisit the facts for mine,

I know she married Matthew Worthington in 1876, they were both living in Manchester Road in Ince, Wigan, Lancashire.
She is a spinster
Father is listed as Robert Jones (deceased) coal miner

Both witnessess are from the Worthington family, none from Annes.

In 1879 Mary Elizabeth is born, both parents are living at "Smelt Row" in Broncoed, Mold.

In the 1881 and 1891 census records Anne Worthington nee Jones lists Mold, Wales as her birth place.

Upon looking again in the 1871 census there is an Anne Jones working as a servant for the HIND family (Weslyan minister as the head of the household)along with Margaret Jones also a servant.

Annes birth is given as about 1854 ( which is different from her marriage cert and census records)

The interesting thing is that the family live in "The Mause" Broncoed Mold, which is the same village Anne and her husband Matthew return to when they have their second child Mary Elizabeth.

This is all I have at the moment so looks like I will have to keep digging,

Paul  :-\
Cutler Derbyshire, Co Durham
Halladay, Durham
Reed, Newcastle, Durham
Mellon/Millon, Ireland, Durham
Dunn, Ireland, Durham
Brett, Ireland, Durham

Offline Ardwyn

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Re: Robert Jones
« Reply #6 on: Monday 19 March 12 14:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi Paul,

Have you used www.northwalesbmd.org.uk? I tend to use that if I'm applying for bmd's in this area as if you write all the additional information you are sure of on the application, they will check this against the certificate you have applied for to make sure it is the right one (not sure if they are supposed to do this, but they do seem to be very helpful).

I looked on there for Ann Jones's born between 1850 and 1860 in Mold and there are 54 matches, though only 9 for Anne with the 'e' and most of those are 'Sarah Anne' or 'Mary Anne'.

I also looked for Robert Jones's who died in Mold between 1870 and 1876 and ther are 15 of them. Of course, the one you are after may not have died between these two dates and may not have died in Mold, but it gives an indication of the number of Robert Jones around in Mold at the time.

Another possibility is that Anne may have been born in Mold, but the family may have moved away soon after - there are mining areas across North Wales and I know that some miners moved between the areas for work.

Also, I've noticed that people tend to be more specific on the censuses with their birthplace closer to home, so if they were still living in the Mold area, they might say 'Gwernymynydd', say, whereas if they'd moved further affield (England!), they'd say Mold or Wales as the census enumerator would be unlikely to know how to spell or pronounce Gwernamynydd ???...

Don't know whether any of this helps  :-\.

Good luck in your search,

Buffy

Arden, Millington, Robinson, Willis - Cheshire
Goodwin, Edwards, Thomas, Jones, Cooper - Flintshire/Denbighshire
Edgoose/Edmunds - Hampshire/Surrey/East Anglia
Arnold/Blundell/Down - Surrey/Dorset/Wiltshire
Hartshorn - Hertfordshire, Kent, London
Self - London/Surrey

Offline jaypee

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Re: Robert Jones
« Reply #7 on: Friday 24 March 17 12:16 GMT (UK) »

i am not sure how recent this post is but if you still need help I may be able to do a look up.
I can check church registers at St Mary's church, Mold for baptisms if you can be more specific about dates

Offline Raybistre

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Re: Robert Jones
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 25 March 17 19:52 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Upon looking again in the 1871 census there is an Anne Jones working as a servant for the HIND family (Weslyan minister as the head of the household)along with Margaret Jones also a servant.

Annes birth is given as about 1854 ( which is different from her marriage cert and census records)

The interesting thing is that the family live in "The Mause" Broncoed Mold, which is the same village Anne and her husband Matthew return to when they have their second child Mary Elizabeth.

Probably "The Manse"

Ray