Isaac Moses, b. 1738, of Fenton, Cumberland

[tomk92]

Hello

I'm a Norwegian who is looking for a person, willing to assist in a "hunt" for a certain John Moses, b. Norway, 1781, to Isaac Moses of Fenton, Cumberland an Norwegian wife Karen Barbara Thode. This John Moses, born in Norway, emigrated to England in the early 1830ties and died in Limehous, London ja. 29th, 1849, buried St. Annes, feb. 04, 1849.

To get a good prospective of the "case", I think it's best to introduce what I know about the english part of the family.

I do not know if anyone has done a genealogical research of Isaac's descendants or ancestors, but it's worth a try.

This is what I know:

Isaac Moses, b. 1738, emigrated to Kristiansund (Christiansund) Norway, 1768. He emigrated together with cousin Thomas Moses, b. 1752,d. 1822 Norway). This Thomas was born in Newcastle. It is not known to me if it is Newcastle upon Tyne or Newcastle under Lyme.

The reason for the emigration was to work in uncle John Moses' company in Kristiansund. "Old" John Moses had returned to England, 1761, after having built a prosperous business in Norway. Upon returning to England, he left the business in the hands of another nephew, George Moses.

"Old" John was not entirely satified with George's way of running the business, hence the change to the other nephews.
Thomas never married and died in Kristiansund 1822. In his will, his 5 sister are mentioned. I will come back to them if any of you may be interested.

Isaac Moses married Karen Barbara Thode, 1780. She died, giving birth to "young" John Moses, 1781. Isaac remarried, with Anna Bolette Tvedt, and the couple had 9 children born to them. All in Kristiansund. Isaac died in 1807.

"Young" John Moses was extremely talented as a businessman. He "studied" business, in England, with his granduncle "old" John, from the age of 17 til 20. "Young" John became one of Kristiansund's most prosperous business men, running an import/export trade with whatever was legal and gave profit.

I 1801, he fathered a son, Isaac Christian Moses, out of wedlock. He had promised the son's mother marriage, but did not stand by this promise and was taken to court.

In 1804, he married Anna Holck Tordenskjold. They got 7 children, alltogether, 4 of them, sons, grew up.

In 1807, age 26, he controlled one third of Kristiansund's wessels. In 1814, he was elected as Kristiansund's representative to the congregation of "able men" at Eidsvoll, to form the Norwegian Constitution.

In 1818, as a final result of problems, caused mainly by the Napoleonic war(s), "young" John's company wnt bankrupt. The authorities needed 6 years to sort out the final economic result of this situation.
During this period, John's marriage to Anna Holck Tordenskjold was "annulled" in 1823.

Story says "Young" John tried to re-establish business and that he finally emigrated to England, together with two of his sons (they are not named in the stories).

According to the stories told, "young" John worked as a ship-broker in or around London. He died Jan 29th, 1849 and was buried Feb. 4th, 1849 in St. Anne's, Limehouse. London. UK.

The bicentennial of the congregation, to form Norway's Constitution, in 1814, is approaching. The National Archive of Norway and one of the major organisations for genealogists, DISNORGE, has launched a collaboration to discover what became of the descendants of thes 112 men who gathered at Eidsvoll in 1814. I live in Kristiansund and I have taken responsibility for the "young" John Moses story. My major challenge now, is to find tracks of him in England.

If any of you find this interesting, I would be more than pleased to hear from you. I may be contacted on the emailaddress: *

Tom Kaasen

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[Schoch]

Hi,

Welcome to Rootschat
 

You may get a better response if this was placed under the London site "Tower Hamlets".  Ask the moderator to move it for you 

Are you, also tracking John's father Isaac, who was from Cumberland?

Familysearch.org shows an Isaac Moses c:28 June 1738 in the village of Hayton by Brampton (very near to Fenton) to a Samuel Moses.

Isaac's marriage to Anna Tvedt is listed with Familysearch.org (19 Dec 1788), as well as the birth of a daughter Karoline Benedicte Moses.


Regards
Richard

[tomk92]

Thanks for your advice!

The reason I placed it here, was that I thought I had to establish an understanding about which Moses-family I was "hunting" for; if Isaac's father could be found, maybe another genealogist would know the "destiny/life-cycle" of this particular grandson, John Moses b. 1781, Norway.

If I knew Isaac's father, it would maybe be easier to find relevant familytrees on Ancestry.
The reason I said Isaac was born in Fenton, is that I saw the template for the chiseling of his tombstone, in the National archive this week. I had ran out of battery on my camera and was not able to photographing it, but it definitively said "born in the town of Fenton".

The descendants of the second marriage are all well covered.

I discovered this morning that "old" John settled in Kingston upon Hull and married Margareth Etherington. They had a daughter, Jane Mary Moses, b. 1765, d. 1800. She married Audrey Beauclerk, but that's another story.

This document links "old" John to Kingston upon Hull:

Ref No. D/X 649/195
 Probate of the will of John Moses, late of Christian-sound, merchant, now of Kingston upon Hull, dated 2 February 1771 devising: Old Park, Broadwood and Stanner Close and other lands in the parishes of Wolsingham, Stanhope and Lanchester; Kings Meadow and the fishery in Northumberland, near Newcastle, upon trust for his daughter Jane Moses as specified with remainder to the issue of his nephew George Moses and cousin Thomas Moses of Newcastle upon Tyne. Codicil devising his house at Ferraby, Yorkshire to his wife for life, 24 April 1773
 [The testator drew up the above will himself and expressed considerable distrust and dislike of lawyers and more particularly his wife's kinsmen and his nephew George. There are stringent conditions regarding marriage in general, continued residence in England, marriage to women of English nationality and an obligation to take the surname Moses incumbent upon the tenant in possesion of the settled estates]
 (parchment, 3 membranes)

This document also states that Thomas' hometown is Newcastle upon Tyne.

Your Samuel Moses, from the christening in Hayton/Brampton, then has to be brother of "old" John Moses. He is said to born i Berwick upon Tweed, but to have stayed in Newcastle, before emigrating to Norway.

Tom Kaasen

 

[Schoch]

Hi Tom,

Sorry but I thought you were tracking "young" John who emigrated to the UK (London area) so that is why I recommended the switch.

Quote:
"I'm a Norwegian who is looking for a person, willing to assist in a "hunt" for a certain John Moses, b. Norway, 1781, to Isaac Moses of Fenton, Cumberland an Norwegian wife Karen Barbara Thode. This John Moses, born in Norway, emigrated to England in the early 1830ties and died in Limehous, London ja. 29th, 1849, buried St. Annes, feb. 04, 1849."

If you are tracking Isaac then Cumberland is the correct place for this  (maybe it should be placed in both areas then)


Richard

[tomk92]

Thank you again

I'm a little uncertain about moving this topic to London because:

If "young" John Moses lives without a family, in a "crowded" area like London, who would know of him there?
I thought it would be more likely that someone, with knowledge of this particular Moses-family, would "recognize" the family and maybe already have the knowledge I'm seeking.

On the other hand; if "young" John Moses married, and even had children born to him in London, there would be a fair chance someone, following the London-area, knew that part better, even without knowing the connection to Cumberland.

Having the same topic in two places is not a good solution, I think, considering most contributors will only know about one of the places.

I think I will keep the topic in Cumberland for a little while, and maybe ask for it to be moved, if I get no information.

Tom Kaasen

[Schoch]

Hi Tom,

Been doing some searching for Isaac (1738) in Cumberland (mentioned in my earlier post) and although there seems to be numerous Moses family members in the general area of Carlisle I can find no other Isaac mentioned.  It might benefit you to ask for a "look Up" and if a Rootschat member is in the area they could go to the appropriate records office to find Isaac's birth certificate and from that you should get his parents.

As for John, I have checked shipping brokers in London for that time..nothing. I have checked newspapers and other publications ..nothing.  You mentioned he left Norway with two of his sons, finding their names would obviously help but as you say the "stories" do not give their names.

It does not help that there are Moses's in just about every town and county and in countries all over the world.  I have looked for any trees with connections to Norway and again nothing.

Hope someone with an active tree sees your post.  Good Luck


Richard

[tomk92]

Thank you once again.

"young" John's sons are:

0. Isaac Christian Moses, b. 1801 out of wedlock. I think he's "sorted out" as staying in Norway

1. Isaac Christopher Moses, b. Nov. 18, 1804. In the divorce-papers 1823-1826, he is named Isaac Christian, although the parish records name him Isaac Christopher. I have no information about him, except that I know he was alive during the separation/divorce-process 1823-1826.

2. Hans Thomas Lange Moses, b. May 31, 1807. I do not know anything about him, like # 2

3. Carl Jacob Lund Moses, b. Nov. 28, 1809. He was "contracted" to be a pharmacist, but became a military officer. He married in Fredrikstad, Norway, 1838 and had 4 children with his wife in the period from 1837 til 1847. He died 1851. I doubt he could have travelled with his father to England.

4. John Moses, b. Sep. 7, 1813. John studied to become a priest. He served as a priest in the Norwegian church. he retired 1880 and died 1881.

I find it most likely that, if any, his two oldest son would be the ones to follow him to England.
I have NO traces of them in Norwegian sources, but then there is a problem that we don't have available sources/censuses (or at least searchable sources) between 1801 and 1865.

There is a "minister" John Moses, b. 1845, in the US_Census_1900_Seattle, which is registered to be Norwegian, with BOTH parents born in Norway. His year of immigration is stated to be 1871. This John Moses does not show up in the Norwegian Census_1865. A theory may be that he could be a son of #1 or # 2, being born in Norway and raised in England. Although the US_Census_1900 tells this John Moses immigrated 1871, it doesn't give any information about from where he immigrated.

"young" John Moses has a grandson, John Christian Tordenskjold Moses, b. 1840 -d. 1912, who became a Lutheran minister in Decorah, Iowa. Do not spend time, wondering whether he could be the John Moses, b. 1845.


Tom Kaasen

[WolfieSmith]

The will of John Moses, Ship Chandler, of No. 3 Fore St, Limehouse St. Anne, Middlesex. Leaves his estate to his "Faithful Housekeeper", Ann Row, Spinster.  Will dated 10 Jan 1849. Probate granted 1 May 1849.

In 1841 census, Fore St., Limehouse St. Anne,
John Mosses, 60, Ship Chandler, N,
Anne Mosses, 40, N,
Eliner Mosses, 70, N,
HO107/701/8//1

N means born in England, but not in this County. No relationships given in 1841 census.

Alan.

[tomk92]

Thank you for the information about the will.

It is a known historical fact (in Kristiansund) that John Moses died in Limehouse in 1849. The will gives his profession and also tells he had no close relatives to inherit him. At least he was not married at the time of writing the will.

I'm more curious about the 1841-census. I have seen this earlier, and failed to understand whether this could be relevant to my project or not.

I also find a Anna Brown in this household, age 15. N


Is it possible to obtain the will of John Moses from the source who holds it?   

Tom Kaasen