Author Topic: which George MOSS  (Read 20060 times)

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: which George MOSS
« Reply #36 on: Thursday 07 November 13 23:37 GMT (UK) »
JM NOTES

The Friends of ALBERT MOSS are respectfully invited to attend the funeral of his deceased MOTHER, Mrs Jane NAPTHALI,  from his residence, 401 Kent Street, at 1:30 pm TOMORROW (Sunday) for the necropolis.  Kinsela, Undertaker

Then there's
The Friends of Mr James NAPTHALI are respectfully invited to attend the funeral of his late WIFE  Jane; to move from her son’s residence,  401 Kent street at half past 1 o’clock on Sunday for the Necropolis.   Kinslea, Undertaker.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/111029478  Evening News,  Sat 11 August 1883.   


NAPTHLIA  August 11, at the residence of her son, Albert Moss, Kent Street, Jane Napthlia, in the 42nd year of her age, leaving a son and two daughters to mourn their loss.  Beloved by all who knew her.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13541772  SMH 13 Aug 1883.

From the above three cuttings we can see that Albert MOSS was NOT the son of James  Napthali.  BUT those cuttings do NOT confrm who was the father of  Jane’s two daughters.    Jane and James were married in 1874, ie when Jane was around 33 years of age. 

Re the elusive dc registration for Jane.

Perhaps we need to try to find the likely series of registration nos.          Sydney was the BDM district that covered the then boundaries for the City of Sydney.   So for example, the BDM district for the registration of the death of Walter GREAVES who died Aug 6, 1883 the dearly beloved son of Edward and Caroline Greaves, Croydon is Canterbury.  (Australian Town & Country)   

NSW BDM districts have different geographical boundaries from the Local Government Boundaries.  In fact each NSW government department’s “boundaries” differed from each other.   The NSW BDM registration numbers in that era, particularly for Sydney and Sydney metro districts are usually allocated quarterly, with “Sydney” allocations coming first each quarter.

So August is in the third quarter.      So Walter Greaves is in Canterbury and is # 2751.   So Jane’s number MUST be lower than that as we are looking for a Sydney registration.   


From the Sydney Morning Herald 11 August 1883 we can see that C Kinsela, Undertaker, Balmain and 116 Oxford St, Sydney was the funeral director for the funeral of a Mr John MURPHY, a Blacksmith, late of Grafton Wharf, leaving St Patrick’s for the Necropolis at 1 o’clock sharp for the Neocropolis.    (There are quite a few notices for that chap, including a Solemn Requiem High Mass)  That chap was the late Treasurer of the I OO F M U (Lodge) and their members were to move from St Patricks Church, Church Hill at 1:15pm per train to the Necropolis.  .  He was aged 68 years.   

So there were at least two funerals heading to Rookwood that Sunday afternoon, perhaps with just a half hour between them,  John Murphy’s may well have been delayed by the numbers at the railway station gathering to board the train and that in turn may have caused a delay for  Jane Napthali’s carriage/s too... particularly once at Rookwood with the need to have the “hearse” carriage shunted back and forth…. 

Of course that does NOT excuse the lack of a registration number for her death, but it does give us the likely series of numbers for the dc for Jane.   The responsibility for doing the actual paperwork at the BDM office was somewhat misunderstood and it was not until post WWI that the guidelines made it clearly the responsibility of the funeral director to register the death.   In the 1880s, the death ought to have been notified to the registrar by the head of the household where she died, and in turn the Medico then confirms the death and in turn the Reg Gen’s local office (sometimes the police or a magistrate or a JP even) authorisd the burial so that the burial could proceed with the interim order (a burial order) then the formal registration was able to be completed after the funeral by the funeral director’s attendance at the Reg Gen Office (or if not in Sydney, at a deputy registrar offices).   

So, John Murphy’s dc is likely no. 2416, and registered at Balmain  (ie that is the BDM district that prepared the burial order for the funeral director, and that is the district that the funeral director reported to confirming he had buried John Murphy) .  He was aged 68 years. 
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13541733  SMH 11 Aug 1883.   

There was at least a third funeral for the Necropolis on that Sunday afternoon, organised by one of the Kinsela funeral directors.  Mr Patrick MADDEN senior, late of Pyrmont, to the Necropolis at 1 o’clock.   He was aged 84 years, died at Pyrmont, registered Sydney.  (Pyrmont being within the Sydney BDM distrct !)  His registration no. is 1348.   

So in my opinion we are looking for a registration no. for Jane, in the series around 1300-1400. 

I will send a PM to someone who may have a disc that may have search options to see if there are any numbers missing from the index in that series,  and errr …. Who may also have a brighter idea than mine re searching for Jane’s dc

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: which George MOSS
« Reply #37 on: Friday 08 November 13 03:55 GMT (UK) »
For Bart

Sometimes it is better to put "least" amount of info into a search engine, so perhaps "Jane" and "1883" where possible may just turn up the tiniest clue that can lead to the breakthrough.

Rookwood Cemetery current online indexes   

http://www.rookwoodcemetery.com.au/index.php/search-online

http://www.rookwoodindependent.com.au/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=11

http://search.catholiccemeteries.org.au/

http://www.rookwoodjewishcemetery.com.au/page/search-for-a-grave

http://austcemindex.com/cemetery.php?id=867 (Rookwood Old Presbyterian)


Info about Rookwood and where records can be accessed
http://www.sag.org.au/helping-you/rookwood-cemetery.html
http://www.nla.gov.au/research-guides/cemetery-records
http://www.australiancemeteries.com/nsw/auburn/rookwood.htm

Fingers crossed, there's hours of possible searchings there.

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Online ~MERLIN~

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,423
    • View Profile
Re: which George MOSS
« Reply #38 on: Friday 08 November 13 16:02 GMT (UK) »
...Burial registers that can look up where she might be buried? Assuming the necropolis was rookwood, I have searched their online database, but no luck.

Jane is buried in the Old Catholic Section of Rookwood - obviously with errors on the index:

James NAPTHLIA age 46yrs
Service Date: 12 Aug 1883
Register Number: 15242
Burial Type: Burial
Location: Section Grave Mortuary 1
Area: 6
Grave: 66
     
Also interred with her:
David SILVA age 2hrs
Service date: 30 Jul 1879    

http://search.catholiccemeteries.org.au/

Offline BartSmith_01

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: which George MOSS
« Reply #39 on: Friday 08 November 13 21:34 GMT (UK) »
JM, wow!  What a post.  I spent ages last night going through the NSW BDM and looking at the numbers.  No joy though

Merlin:  many thanks for your help.  Was getting there! That is the second time I have seen Napthali spelt Napthlia.

It does however deepen the mystery even more.  Why is she interred with someone with the name "Silva"  This name does not even feature anywhere in the family tree!  I have found the associated birth, and the parents aren't related to her...  Grrrr....

The next time I am in Sydney, looks like I am going for a wander around Rookwood!

Again, many thanks.

Bart


Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: which George MOSS
« Reply #40 on: Saturday 09 November 13 04:17 GMT (UK) »
David SILVA, son of Laurianus J and Rosanna.   NSW BDM #1297.   Registered Sydney.

Well found Merlin :)

Cheers,  JM 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline cando

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,332
    • View Profile
Re: which George MOSS
« Reply #41 on: Saturday 09 November 13 04:27 GMT (UK) »
There is no headstone for either Jane NAPTHALI/NAPTHLIA or David SILVA at Rookwood Catholic.

Cando
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: which George MOSS
« Reply #42 on: Saturday 09 November 13 04:50 GMT (UK) »
It is of course possible that the registration was not completed, or when the NSW BDM indexes were being prepared that the entry was missed, or when the indexes were converted to EDP indexing that the card was missed.

My old floppy disc index has of course not been accessed for many a year, and OH assures me that even if we found a drive for it, that the NSW BDM discs themselves have deteriorated and are now OOO for ever.

We need to find an RChatter who is Sydney based and who knows their way around Rookwood. 

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=667459.0 


Cheers,  JM     
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline muss

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,424
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: which George MOSS
« Reply #43 on: Sunday 10 November 13 01:00 GMT (UK) »
Hi

 Do we know who was buried next to Jane ?  I have an Aaron Brown who died 15 May 1926, Father William mother Eliza. He is on the BDMs under the name of Broughton ( name of the  person in the next grave at Canterbury Cemetery).

Muss

Online ~MERLIN~

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,423
    • View Profile
Re: which George MOSS
« Reply #44 on: Sunday 10 November 13 01:05 GMT (UK) »
Do we know who was buried next to Jane ?

Adjoining graves:
 
ALMEDO William 09 Jun 1879 22yrs - M1.6.65
FEENEY Mary 01 Jul 1879  40yrs - M1.6.67