which George MOSS

[majm]

Hi Robyn,

Re the various George MOSS chaps in Sydney .... Has the City of Sydney Assessment Books helped sort these chaps out at all?

City of Sydney Assessment Books
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/assessmentbooks/
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=499593.0


I have various offline resources, including Directories, and I can see George as a Customs Agent etc .... Do you already have the various sightings or would you like me to type them up?   Offline resources include some hardcopy early NSW Electoral Rolls, so it can be a tad hard to find him without knowing a likely electorate, but with some possible clues I am happy to look further if that is of any benefit....

Cheers,  JM 

[regross]

MJM have pm'd you.

George the Custom Agent was previously a publican in 1833, then  the secretary of the synagogue, and later publisher of the Australian, and his unmarried son George took over from him when he died.

George the Wine and Spirit Agent/publican  is our George Moss he was a convict in a chain gang until 1837, and seems to have turned his life around after he marreid Sarah Ann Davis in 1839 and his son George became an estate agent after period of various activites including minor criminal ones.

Still trying to find details of the Sydney Water Court reports re George Moss deserting his illegitimmate children in Melbourne in 1872.

Robyn

[~MERLIN~]

Annie Leah died & is buried in Victoria:

Death:

BORTHWICK Annie Leah age 63yrs d.1931 PRAN #2763
Father: Moss Hy
Mother: Annie  BATFIELD

Fawkner Memorial Park:

BORTHWICK Annie Leah age 63yrs 01/01/1931
Location: Presbyterian, Compartment D, Grave 3351

William is buried with her in the same grave:

BORTHWICK William age 87yrs 19/09/1949

Death:

BORTHWICK Wm age 87yrs d. 1949 HBERG #10461
Father: Borthwick Walter
Mother: Agnes  POLLOCK

[majm]

Well found Merlin.....

Robyn, I have received your PM    I can already see the Wine Merchant in some directories 

Cheers,  JM

[regross]

Merlin,

Thankyou for that find 

I note father's name give as Henry and mother as Batfield (same as marriage) but  hmmm that depends on who was giving the info of course.

I have checked all online state records but Victoria for a death of Jane Napthali am hoping to do that on Wednedsay at the State Library in Sydney.
 
modified to add:
Hoping JAnes death certicate may have useful inormation on George Moss
reminder the GEORGE MOSS needs to have been some one old enough to have had 2 relationships and at least 12 children before his relationship with Jane Batwell if what the researchers are claiming is true.


Robyn

[regross]

Correction
 as picked up earlier by Rhonda

The death of Sarah was in newspapers dated Dec 1862 and Jan 1863

Sarah Ann Moss died December 1862 not 1861 as on the TRANSCRIPTION of her death certificate.
reports in Trove for death in December 1862, and funeral January 1863

Robyn

[regross]

Hi,
Annie Leah Moss 1866 birth certificate has arrived.

The details on the copy of the original and not a transcription have in some respects made the search more difficult.

We were hoping to find George Moss' signature on the certificate to compare with other examples of his signature that we hold. Unfortunately Jane made the registration.

date of birth 20th May 1866     Place of birth Harris Street Pyrmont.(no Moss in the Sydney assessment books in Harris street)

date of registration 15th October 1866   mother's address South Head Rd (Jane's mothers address and after declaration made by law)

fathers age 40 (est dob= 1826 our George was born c1813 this is a big age difference)

Occupation storekeeper (ours was a wine and spirirt merchant/innkeeper)

Date and Place of Marriage 1861 Sydney (no record of this marriage and our George's wife dided late December 1862)

previous issue
3 females, 6 males living by first wife  (in 1866 our George had 4 females  and 7 males living)
2 females, 1 male living by present wife (not previous wife as others have cited)

We are tending to be more of the opinion that this is a different George Moss but so far no proff that it is not him the discrepancies just seem to grow the more we look into it.

Robyn

[majm]

So the George who married in 1861 to Jane Batwell was fathering children with Jane in 1866 and at the same time was marrying Mary Ann in 1864 and fathering her children too .... And you think there were TWO different George Moss chaps but another researcher disagrees ....  Well does this other researcher have any proof that these two chaps, one in Melbourne Victoria and one in Sydney NSW are the same chap ... Just because a marriage cannot be spotted on the NSW BDM index simply does not show there was none registerd ...  That index was not even prepared until the 1930s and many RChattters can find flaws with it.... including me ... I have mc from a Sydney parish that is not on that Index ... and it is from 1860s.... 

Was Mrs Elizabeth Fleming the midwife?  She ran the PO part/time and it was a store at 64 Harris St Pyrmont in the 1860s.

Suggest: A timeline looking each time at 36-40 weeks before these Two families of Moss babies were born  WHERE was George and could he be in Melboune nd Sydney at the one time!
  Cheers JM 

[regross]

JM

So the George who married in 1861 to Jane Batwell was fathering children with Jane in 1866 and at the same time was marrying Mary Ann in 1864 and fathering her children too

Well that is what the others assert. But our George Moss (now 1 of 5 around Sydney at that time) was still married until 30th December 1862 when his first wife Sarah Ann nee Davies died. The marriage to Jane would have been bigamous.

Was Mrs Elizabeth Fleming the midwife?  She ran the PO part/time and it was a store at 64 Harris St Pyrmont in the 1860s.

not noted on the birth certificate but possible but did note the name in the Syndey Archives material.

Our George was in Sydney and Melbourne, one child died there and his second legal wife Mary Ann nee Heuston gave birth to the last child of their marraige there. Both events can be found in the Victorian BDM's. He had become a partner in a Jewellery business in Melbourne  in 1870/71having sold up in Sydney. This partnership was dissolved  in 1872 and he and Mary Ann returned to Singleton where here family lived. George died there in 1874 of "softening of the brain of 5 years duration".

His sale of Sydney assests and his business venture can be traced in Trove.

The George Moss from Melbourne taken to Sydney water court  1872 for deserting his  3 illegitimate children is still not determined. (postulate it might be Jane but G & MA Moss had returned to Singleton at this time.)

At the same time there were at least 3 other men of that name in Melbourne.

Robyn