Bolas family or/and Cond family

[wrjones]

Thats a different one.They're in Middlesex again in 1851-HO107/1545/448/6.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[Gadget]

Thst looks possible William - she was born Selattyn too (or Slatting as it's written    )

[wrjones]

We'll have to wait for the OP!

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[Welsh terrier]

Hello Cousin !
Am I related to your mate ? ( "rellies in the Conde family )?
I am currently on calving duty so will take a closer look at your respnses tommorrow.
William give me clue to "OP" or am I missing something glaringly obvious here ?

Many thanks both for quick reply

Welsh Terrier

[wrjones]

OP just means original poster.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[Richard666]

I am trying to connect the Mates family to the Bolas family as the Mates have always been described as ‘cousins’ in my wife’s family with no explanation of why.
My wife remembers Herbert and Dorothy Mates (twins b 1907 lived  Chirk Green) from her childhood. It appears that their father Thomas Herbert Mates (b 1873 d 1921 lived in Chirk) married 1901 Lavinia Conde (b1866) both were servants at Chirk Castle.
James Bolas hopefully the one who married Mary Cond would be my wife’s 3rd Great Grandfather
 via his son Thomas Bolas (b1825) married 1846 Ann Gibson (b1821 Bethnal Green Middlesex) The wedding entry states  father James Bolas deceased.
Via his daughter Jane Happy Bolas (b1852 Bethnal Green Middlesex) married 1872 Henry George Illingworth (b1850)

Henry George Illingworth is my wife’s Great Grandfather

So all I need to do is link Lavinia Conde with Mary Cond and we will know why the Mates are ‘cousins’ to my wife.

Any ideas would be appreciated and I would love a scan of Thomas and Mary’s marriage certificate if possible please

Richard

[Gadget]

Hi Richard

Welcome to Rootschat.

I'm descended from Thomas Herbert's sister so I'm only related to Lavinia Condie by marriage and I've not investigated her line very thoroughly.  However,  I do have some small mementos of the family,  as their son, Herbert, was not only my 1st cousin, once removed, but also my godfather. Lavinia was always referred to as Aunty Vinny by my father.

I know  that Lavinia Condie's parents were Edward and Caroline. Edward was a Collier. She was born May 1st 1865, Chirk Green

They are living Chirk Green in 1871 - RG10/2784/48/12

Edward Condie, 45 , collier, b. Selattyn
Caroline, wife, 46
Thomas, s, 16, collier
Edward. s, 14, collier
Charles, s, 12, collier
Joseph, s, 10
Vinia, d, 6
William Williams, lodger, 25, collier
All but Edward were born Chirk.

Given that Edward was born Selattyn as well as Mary, it would be worth you checking to see if there was a relationship.

Could I also add a word of caution ~ the three children (Caroline, Herbert and Dorothy) referred to everyone in Chirk as 'cousin' or 'cuz', whether they were related to them or not, so that your wife's connection might be of this order.



gnu

added - have checked my records and note that Edward Cond/ie and Caroline Williams married in Ruabon, Jan 30th  1853. Another relative of ours, Seth Twigg*, was a witness. Edward's father was Thomas Cond/ie, a shoemaker.

This looks like Edward's baptism:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JQ58-P38

and his parents' marriage:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJHR-7PG

1841 Census
Selattyn
HO107/916/5/33/7
Thomas Cond, 40. shoemaker
Elinor, 40
Edward, 10
William, 10
Thomas, 10
Richard, 5
Joseph, 2
All b. Shropshire


* Seth Twigg was the son of Benjamin Twigg and Ann Mates (nee Cash). Ann was previously married to Thomas Mates, who died at Black Park Colliery in the 1820s. Aged 25.  Thomas and Ann were my 3 x great grandparents.

Added later -

Goodness

I've just found Edward Condie on the 1851 census in Chirk:
HO107/1993/810/20

Benjamin Twigg, 55, Engineer, b, Cannock
Ann, w, 55
Eunice, d, 14
Mary, d, 12
Edward Conde, visitor, 22, coal miner, b. Selattyn
Others b. Chirk

and just discovered that Edward's wife Caroline Williams' father, Walter, was married to Ann Twigg/Mates/Cash's sister Martha - the web tightens  -

So -

Lavinia Condie  m Thomas Herbert Mates
|
Edward Condie & Caroline Williams
                                  |
                                  Walter Williams & Martha Cash (sister of Ann who married 1. Thomas Mates 2. Benjamin Twigg)


Ann and Thomas Mates were the great grandparents of Thomas Herbert Mates. If I've worked it out correctly, Lavinia and Thomas were therefore 2nd cousins, once removed  

Mates Line:

Thomas Mates m. Ann Cash
|
James Mates m Elizabeth Stokes
|
Thomas Mates m. Ellen Jones
|
Thomas Herbert Mates

Condie Line:

Walter Williams m Martha Cash
|
Caroline Williams m. Edward Condie
|
Lavinia Condie

[Richard666]

Hello gnu

My name is Trish White, wife of Richard to whom you have been exchanging notes about Herbert Mates. Thanks for the information it has been quite helpful.

My mother  and her sister were sent to Chirk during the war by my grandparents as they had cousins up there. They stayed with the Masons in Chirk, the Keddies in Halton and possibly Herbert and Dorothy Mates in Chirk. It seems a strange place to go if there was no family in the area.

After the war my mother returned to London where as her sister Irene ( Rene ) Illingwoth married Geoffrey Jackson and spent the rest of her life in Gobowen. She worked  for  20 plus years at Oswestry School as their secretary and was known by one and all as Jacko.

My mother was convinced that we were distantly related to Herbert and Dorothy through either the Bolas, Conde or Mates marriage way back .

I remember as a child we visited my aunt on a regular basis and also called in on Herbert  and Dorothy at 4 Stone Cottages Chirk, He also came to London occasionally to visit us- hence my belief in a loose family connection. I can also remember he called every one including my mother as cuz which I thought strange.  He took myself and my brother around Chirk and the surrounding areas when my grandmother died ( also living with my aunt in Gobowen) in the mid sixties including showing us the mine where he had worked – Black Park I believe. I can remember meeting  ' Seth' who was also a cousin !!

 I cannot not remember Carrie who died  earlier, but did meet her fiancé Les who appeared to be a lodger afterwards with Herbert and Dorothy. I believe that Dorothy was a nurse.

After my own mother died in 1981 we lost touch and I believe that they both died and would be interested in any information that you have on them as family or  not they were always very good to us and especially to my mother who had been widowed when myself and my brother were young.

It would make life very easy for me if  Thomas Conde born around 1799 and grandfather of Lavinia Conde was the sibling of Mary Cond ( conde?) born around 1806 who married James Bolas in 1824. If only I could prove that the Thomas Cond who was a witness at their wedding was the Thomas Cond born in 1799.

Thanks for your time Trish White

[wilcoxon]

Unfortunately this is not a will, but we have a Thomas Bolas inkeeper and his relict Mary.

Bolas, Thomas, Chirk, Denbigh 
  Thomas Bolas : bond, 1827
http://hdl.handle.net/10107/931883

This is a will , with names of various children, including a James .

Bolas, William, Halton, Chirk, Denbigh, Yeoman 
  William Bolas : will, 1825
http://hdl.handle.net/10107/179420