Author Topic: Ann Young - convict  (Read 28586 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Ann Young - convict
« Reply #45 on: Wednesday 21 November 18 01:59 GMT (UK) »
Here is the Trove newspaper cutting for the death announcement in 1876

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/107179625 Evening News 8 July 1876

On reading that cutting I offer that her death 'a short while ago' was in May or June of that year and was in NSW.   So there's some reasons for not finding her death indexed at the online NSW BDM.   Firstly the index was not in existence until a team of volunteers transcribed the records in the 1930s, so the Registrar General's copy if it existed would have been received as part of a quarterly return from the local deputy Reg Gen officer for perhaps the Bathurst district, back in Oct 1876.   IF (and this is a possible) that quarterly return was a) not sent  b) not received  c) too difficult to transcribe at the time then it has not ever been actioned by the clerks in the then 1876 Reg Gen's office

HOWEVER,  NSW BDM death certs are quite detailed, and even in 1876 they included the equivalent of the burial order, so were lodged locally with the deputy registrar by the undertaker after he had obtained family info, the medico's signature confirming the deceased was deceased and causes etc. 

So a search may be needed of all the many cemeteries in the Bathurst district .... an extensive district then and still is now... 

If the death was sudden and she had not been under the care of a medico for several weeks, then the police magistrate in that district would have needed to consider if there were suspicious circumstances and involve a coroner or at least a Justice of the Peace....  But a burial order may have been issued at that time, and BEFORE any coroner's enquiry happened.  IF THAT IS THE CASE .... well, in many instances in that era ... once the undertaker had a burial order, he proceeded with the burial and then he had no further need to remember to do any further paperwork,  for it was often the case that the Police Magistrate or at least the clerk of petty sessions, or the sheriff or their spouse was the part time deputy Registrar....  sparse populations spread over huge territories, not many BDM events, so not much practised knowledge on handling the bdm paperwork for the Sydney Registrar General who was also responsible for Land Titles, Deeds, Land Sales, Conditional Purchases/leases etc etc etc.

So it is entirely possible that her death was registered and is mis-transcribed, or was registered locally and not adequately transmitted to Sydney HQ, or has been lost in the EDP system when NSW BDM first computerised back in the 1970s and 80s, and recalled all the non metropolitian registers to HQ.

There are other clerical admin issues, but those seem to me to be the significant ones, assuming she died in the Bathurst BDM District ... similar thoughts though for other non Metropolitian BDM districts with infrequent need to register bdm events, thus part timers responsible for the clerical recordings.

JM 

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Offline StrangePlanet

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Re: Ann Young - convict
« Reply #46 on: Wednesday 21 November 18 03:13 GMT (UK) »
I suspect that Ann's death must have occurred only a week or two before the article. The Maitland Mercury printed the same article just a few days later.

It would be interesting, as suggested above, if Sergeant Thomas Whittle turned out to be the real father of James Parker Jnr. because that would seem to be the root of the story that James Parker Snr was in fact a soldier rather than a convict.

Offline Cherobanne

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Re: Ann Young - convict
« Reply #47 on: Monday 25 September 23 07:55 BST (UK) »
I am a descendant of Anne Young and James Parker. Their daughter Mary Anne Parker married Joseph Bowyer and their daughter Mary Anne Bowyer married John Coneybeer their daughter Irene Coneybear was my grandmother. I am interested in putting together the puzzle of Anne Young and Peter Cavanagh. If I find out what happened to Peter Cavanagh after his discharge from the Hulk Retribution, I will post it here. I am assuming he appealed his sentence at the time.

Offline rossmcmillan

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Re: Ann Young - convict
« Reply #48 on: Thursday 28 September 23 23:04 BST (UK) »
Just got your post. I have lots of information about Ann Young but very little regarding Cananagh. I will be interested to know what became of him after serving his 7 years. If he served it out on a prison hulk he probably avoided transportation to Australia like Ann and her sister Euphemia.


Offline Forfarian

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Re: Ann Young - convict
« Reply #49 on: Friday 29 September 23 09:10 BST (UK) »
Has anyone followed up the reference in the catalogue of the National Records of Scotland?

Repository    National Records of Scotland
Reference    JC26/1804/26
Title    Porteous Roll (with Precepts for Aberdeen sitting) for the county of Banff, for the Circuit Court of Justiciary (North Circuit, Spring) to be held at Aberdeen.
Dates    24 April 1804
Access status    Open
Location    On site
Description    Indicted for trial:

1. Margaret Keith alias Tough, presently prisoner in the tolbooth of Abderdeen, for the crime of theft, and being a habit and repute thief. Pleaded not guilty of 1st act of theft; guilty of 2nd act of theft and of being a habit and repute thief. Found guilty of 2nd act of theft and of being a habit and repute thief. Sentenced to transportation beyond the seas for 7 years.
2. Janet Monro, alias Ross, presently prisoner in the tolbooth of Aderdeen, for the crime of theft. Diet deserted pro loco et tempore;
Margaret Gray, presently prisoner in the tolbooth of Aderdeen, for the crime of theft. Pleaded not guilty. Found guilty of 2nd act of theft, others not proven. Sentenced to transportation beyond the seas for 5 years;
Peter Cavanagh, presently prisoner in the tolbooth of Aderdeen, for the crime of theft. Pleaded not guilty. Found guilty of 3rd act of theft, others not proven. Sentenced to transportation beyond the seas for 7 years;
Anne Young, wife of said Peter Cavanagh, presently prisoner in the tolbooth of Aderdeen, for the crime of theft. Pleaded not guilty. Found guilty of 3rd act of theft, others not proven. Sentenced to transportation beyond the seas for 5 years
Euphemia Young, presently prisoner in the tolbooth of Aderdeen, for the crime of theft. Pleaded not guilty. Found guilty of 3rd act of theft, others not proven. Sentenced to transportation beyond the seas for 5 years.

Papers also include Precepts for the Aberdeen sitting: precepts of publication; lists of assize; letters of execution against assizers and witnesses.
Level    File
Creator name    High Court of Justiciary: Aberdeen
Previous numbers    JC26/321
Related material    JC11/47/f.53v-54r, 60v-r;
JC11/47/f.55v-58v, 60r-61v, 82r-85v;
JC26/1804/6


Original catalogue entry (shrunk link) http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sp2/
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline GR2

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Re: Ann Young - convict
« Reply #50 on: Friday 29 September 23 10:35 BST (UK) »
The Aberdeen Journal, Wednesday 2nd May 1804:

                    Aberdeen
              WEDNESDAY, MAY 2.
We stated in our last the procedings of the
Circuit Court here, which met on Tuesday. The
Court met again on Wednesday and Thursday,
and concluded the business of the Circuit, when
the following sentences were pronounced:

.................[details of other case]..................

Janet Monro, alias Ross, Margaret Gray, Peter
Cavanagh, Anne Young, wife of the said Peter
Cavanagh, and Euphemia Young, vagrants, accus-
ed of theft and of habit and repute thieves;
they were found guilty, after a trial of 8 hours.
The diet against Janet Munro, alias Ross, was
deserted pro loco et tempore. Cavanagh was sen-
tenced to seven years transportation; and Mar-
garet Gray, Anne Young, and Euphemia Young
to be transported for five years.

Offline Cherobanne

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Re: Ann Young - convict
« Reply #51 on: Friday 24 November 23 23:33 GMT (UK) »
I thought James Parker Jnr from Queen Charlottes Vale was from a different Parker family but now I'm not so sure. I think it was him who married Ester Bell in 1834. The thing that threw me was that they married in Sydney and moved to Bathurst.  Still not sure.

Offline Cherobanne

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Re: Ann Young - convict
« Reply #52 on: Saturday 16 December 23 04:49 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

I am also a descendant of Ann Young. Ann and James Parker's youngest daughter married Joseph Bowyer.    
Ann Young m James Parker 1810
Mary Ann Parker m Joseph Bowyer 1829
Mary Bowyer m John Coneybeer 1881
Irene Coneybear m Ralph Victor Garlick 1921
Ralph Garlick m Clarice Isbester 1944
Cheryl Garlick m Ron Stevens 1969

I am happy to pass any information on if I can help but you probably have more than me.

I did find that James Parker Jnr (probably) not James' son is buried at Chinamans Bend cemetery between Orange and Lucknow. I have so many ancestors from Orange. My Aunt Merna Garlick married Frank Lawry. They had a cherry orchard at Lucknow. I wish I had know more history when they were alive.
Regards,

Cheryl Stevens 

Offline rossmcmillan

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Re: Ann Young - convict
« Reply #53 on: Saturday 23 December 23 23:01 GMT (UK) »
Hi Cherobanne,

I could not find Peter Cavanagh's record in the Register of the Retribution Hulk at Woolwich but there were several mentions of a Michael Cavanagh. Can you post where this record can be viewed as you say he served out his seven year sentence and was released.