Author Topic: 1861 Census Lookup Please MOGG  (Read 3158 times)

Offline daveyowen

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1861 Census Lookup Please MOGG
« on: Wednesday 09 May 12 18:59 BST (UK) »
Hello All,

Could someone please locate the following people in the 1861 census and where they lived with other people:

Sydenham Mogg born 1835     was a Grocer later in life

Daughter Eliza born around 1854

Wife ? I think Mary Ann. It is confirmation of the wife's name that I am keen on.

Probably Lydlinch, Dorset (Sturminster)



Many thanks,

David  :D

Offline rutht22000

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Re: 1861 Census Lookup Please MOGG
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 09 May 12 19:09 BST (UK) »
Hi David

There is a Sydenham Mogg (transcribed as Mugg) is living in London at 24 Praed Street, Paddington (as a lodger).  He is a boot maker.

It comes up that he is unmarried though but gives the birth place as Lydlinch and is 24

He follows through to the census' as married to lady called Elizabeth all the way up to 1891 and then in 1901 to Helena.   Later census gives this Mr Mogg as a grocer.

Sydenham Mogg married Elizabeth Peters on 10 March 1863 at St Peter Notting Hill, giving a father as William and then Helena Knight in Sturminster in 1898

Do you know where the child Eliza comes from as she seems pre-marriage? - the only child I can see is Mary who is with Sydenham and Elizabeth in 1871. She was born 1858 and she certainly pre-dates the marriage unless there was a wife before Elizabeth Peters


Jeacock
Colebourne
Shepherd
Scotter
Sievers
Knowles
Pritchard
Lilley
Hart/Hertz
Woodmansey
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John (South Wales)
Pearce (South Wales)

Offline rutht22000

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Re: 1861 Census Lookup Please MOGG
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 09 May 12 19:24 BST (UK) »
There are 3 marriages for "a" Sydenham Mogg on freebmd

1857 in Wells to Mary Ann Chambers or Mary Culliford and then the other 2 to Elizabeth and then Helena.

Possibly the child Mary with Sydenham and Elizabeth was from this 1857 marriage....its does give Mary's birthplace as London so she may turn in the London records but that would only likely confirm the mother as Mary. 

Getting Mary's birth certificate might be the only way of definitely getting hold of who mum was.

What's interesting is that if he was married to the child's mother by 1861 he was not declaring in on the 1861 census!  He also describes himself as a Bachelor on the marriage certificate to Elizabeth...

There's not 2 Sydenham's is there?
Jeacock
Colebourne
Shepherd
Scotter
Sievers
Knowles
Pritchard
Lilley
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Woodmansey
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Thomas (South Wales)
John (South Wales)
Pearce (South Wales)

Offline rutht22000

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Re: 1861 Census Lookup Please MOGG
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 09 May 12 19:34 BST (UK) »
See what you mean about the existence of an Eliza...but she is with her grandparents (William and Mary) in 1851, aged 1. Not sure she is Sydenham's though as he would only have been 15. 

Any chance she belongs to an older brother or sister of his? - there is a Jesse Mogg older brother of Sydenham in 1841 that consequently has a daughter Eliza, aged 11, in 1861.
Jeacock
Colebourne
Shepherd
Scotter
Sievers
Knowles
Pritchard
Lilley
Hart/Hertz
Woodmansey
Monnington
Thomas (South Wales)
John (South Wales)
Pearce (South Wales)


Offline daveyowen

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Re: 1861 Census Lookup Please MOGG
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 09 May 12 19:37 BST (UK) »
Hello,

It is possible that there are two Sydenham's, though it is not a common name. However, I definitely know that he also had a girl called Sadie in the late 1850's (my auntie's can vaguely remember her, and my Grandfather went to her funeral in 1935). Sadie was also called Sarah (Ann) Just to make things confusing. In the 1911 census Sarah Ann (Sadie) was living with her older sister Eliza, who was born around 1854. This is too early for Elizabeth Peters who would have been too young, so think/guessing that he first married Mary Ann Chambers. Though think certificates are the only way.

For your interest. Helena (his last wife) was my direct descendant, with both being my Gt Grandparents.

Kind regards and thanks,

David

Offline daveyowen

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Re: 1861 Census Lookup Please MOGG
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 09 May 12 19:40 BST (UK) »
You could be right, but my mum definitely tells me that Sydenham married three times. Also in other census's Eliza is down as born around 1854, and with him being born 1835 is a bit young, but not unheard of. I wish it was more straightforward ! Though not as difficult as following my surname Owen.....just glad it's not Smith !

Offline daveyowen

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Re: 1861 Census Lookup Please MOGG
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 09 May 12 19:41 BST (UK) »
My mum also confirmed that Sydenham lived in London for a while.

Offline daveyowen

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Re: 1861 Census Lookup Please MOGG
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 09 May 12 19:53 BST (UK) »
Sorry, just realised, if Eliza was around in the 1851 census then she definitely was born well before 1854...this makes it more confusing. ???

Offline rutht22000

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Re: 1861 Census Lookup Please MOGG
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 09 May 12 19:55 BST (UK) »
I think its too unique a name for there to be more than 1 thinking about, especially as the Lydlinch Sydenham is the only one that appears in any records that I can see.

I do think we have three marriages (1) possibly Mary Ann (2) Elizabeth and (3) Helena.  Its a question of matching children to parents.

the child Mary that is with him in 1871 is almost certainly from the first marriage.  If Eliza is too, I can't see her at all in 1861 apart from that Eliza with Sydenham's elder brother.

I wonder if Sadie and Eliza put themselves down as sisters in 1911 when in fact they were half sisters? How old does Sadie say she is in 1911? (can't find them myself to check)
Jeacock
Colebourne
Shepherd
Scotter
Sievers
Knowles
Pritchard
Lilley
Hart/Hertz
Woodmansey
Monnington
Thomas (South Wales)
John (South Wales)
Pearce (South Wales)