Expertese sought -tracking Yorkshire ancestor born pre 1710

[hanleyp]

A lot of trees seem to dry up around 1700 on the web. Maybe Thomas was not baptised ? end of story!. Maybe his father left a Will or Probate Administration with Thomas named in it
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Thanks Dobfarm -- the thought had crossed my mind too.

Lot of my family think I am mad chasing this --but it now a big challenge ---plus an enjoyable interest.

I think my search would be interesting to a lot of people who would find themselves in exactly the same situation. ---problem around 1700.

I think this is probably caused by two factors -- very limited info on bmd parish registers--simple name and fathers name ---and movement between parishes .

Perhaps movements started to occur at this time due to restrictions in farm practices --forcing people to move. It could be that in the 17 century this did not occur.

The only way I can be certain is to check the parish records.

[Rena]

Hi there,

Its like being Sherlock Holmes doing this ancestry lark lol.
Did try and have a look for you but although I have found
Hanleys in Yorkshire I cannot find one born 1704/5//6 time
you are looking for.  There are Hanleys in Pocklington back
to 1500's and also some at Brodsworth.  Both a few miles
and walkable in those days to Sutton on Derwent. If you look
for the Derwent River it comes past and through alot of Yorkshire
villages which I looked on the IGI for and Hanleys everywhere.
I did notice that some one had put Barnby Dun on the Heath Tax.
A few weeks ago I did a look up for someone around Doncaster whose
ancestor a agricultural labourer ended up in Hull. They couldnt understand
how they got so far away.
I then did some research and the River Trent runs through Nottinghamshire
and then Yorkshire through Barnby Dun and goes to the North Sea when it meets the Humber
estuary.  So lots of Agricultural Labourers did use the rivers in those
days. 10 miles was not far for me to walk when I was younger, I have
never had a car and although I am now 65 and can do one mile in speed
walking in 12 minutes. So dont disregard the amount of walking people
did as I did that in the 50's and 60's.  No PC or I pod to keep you in
when I was a kid. laugh.  I have found that after years of research
you have to be flexible not only in the spelling of names but how our
ancestors got around.   They had to move around to get money to live.
No Government handouts in those days.
Hope you eventually find your Thomas but have a look up for the
Derwent River, Yorkshire and see the map of how it gets to Sutton

regards Sandymc

I agree you have to have lateral thinking.   I have a Norfolk ancestor who was an apprenticed sailor but gave up a life on a boat when he met and married a girl up in the Sunderland area - he worked on the land for the rest of his life.

I know I suggested inland people travelled by river but as in the case of the man who ended up in Hull: - people often walked along "drovers trails", made by farmhands who took geese, cattle, pigs and sheep to markets.  Hull had massive warehouses where they kept cattle which were exported to the colonies.

... and, for instance, there's an ancient drovers trail from Hereford to Wales where thousands of animals were taken to feed the workers who flooded the places where coal had been found.  There used to be a drovers trail from Scotland down to Herefordshire too - maybe the Scots sold their cattle to some middle men in Herefordshire who then walked them to other destinations.

My best guess is you've found possible parents for the ancestor if all the ancestor's children have names which fit the older generation... e.g. their grandparents names and names of mother's/father's oldest sister/brother.

[dobfarm]

Hi, Hanley P

A lot of what you say or conveying about moment of people from parish to parish also across parish boundaries, or permanent migration from one parish to another and has to take into account many factors in history. Wealth, poor, poverty, occupations, trades, apprenticeships, laws, regional uprisings, Militia, land owners as deeds , tenant farmers leases, general workers known as labourer and many other factors like parish rules and regs as poorlaw. Therefore whether Thomas Hanley was one of the very few who did migrate over 10 km or 100 miles in the extream or one of the statistics who never moved above 10 km away, if he did migrate? there could be settlement/removal/overseers relief payments records or his parish of birth records if he receive relief payments from is birth parish in another parish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Poor_Laws

Urban city/town  life in parish's and country agricultural  ural parish life, also the workforce did differ, where as its been already mentioned aforesaid on this board thread that in farming communities workers did travel across parish boarders to markets, to move livestock and travel to different farms as harvesting time as each farm got their crops in and then on to the next farm. These workers would probably would have been young single men before settling down to a married life whether that be their home parish, their future wife's parish or where the young man found his employment.

With disease rampant then with short life expectancy, people moving to cities to find better paid employment from country life, leaving the farmers  to travel futher to find workers.

As said statistics & real life factors do differ and as you say with basic parish single line BMD's entries pre 1754 it is very had to prove anything.

Again in short if they were wealthy or very poor there were records but in between as people with jobs or trades the records are poor! if non existant. Cork screw thinking is really need here.

[Rena]

When people moved between parishes they would need a "Settlement Certificate" ( permission to move into a parish).  Unfortunately not many remain.
I've already looked on the A2A manorial website and there doesn't appear to be one for Thomas - only this 1729 record which obviously you've already seen:-

"Thomas Hanley of Sutton on Derwent labourer and George Rosendale of York fishmonger: - assault by T.H. and wife on Jonathan Thorp.  QSF/127/C/13  c1739

These documents are held at East Riding of Yorkshire Archives and Records Service"

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/advanced-search.aspx?tab=1

[dobfarm]

Corkscrew thinking.

Another reason to find mass general labour workers
River Derwent Yorkshire
In 1702 an Act of Parliament was passed authorising its proprietors to improve the river. Towpaths were laid out and "locks, turnpikes, pens for water, wharfs and warehouses" were constructed. The promoters of these works were allowed to charge tolls on the cargo carried on any part of the river.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Derwent,_Yorkshire

QU- Did Thomas's dad move there with Thomas and his wife to work on the river around 1704 or much later but by 1730 the river work was finished and Thomas found local work

Maybe his dad was an Irish digger worker ?

[hanleyp]

When people moved between parishes they would need a "Settlement Certificate" ( permission to move into a parish).  Unfortunately not many remain.
I've already looked on the A2A manorial website and there doesn't appear to be one for Thomas - only this 1729 record which obviously you've already seen:-

"Thomas Hanley of Sutton on Derwent labourer and George Rosendale of York fishmonger: - assault by T.H. and wife on Jonathan Thorp.  QSF/127/C/13  c1739

These documents are held at East Riding of Yorkshire Archives and Records Service"

[Thanks came across this too --but the report has no mention of thomas birth place --Could not find the actual qtr session of the peace at beverley in which he was being bound ( for sum of 10 pounds) to attend.

Would love to read that!

Incidentally I think Jonathan Thorpe must have ben a poacher. Lots of documents listing him as trespassing over the years . That why my Thomas mped him . reckon poaching fish--that why George -- fishmonger is mentioned

Regards --Phil Hanley . ]

[sallyyorks]

re 'Irish' workers . I dont think there would have been many Irish in Yorks at this time , Irish migrants came over more in the mid to late 1800s. . . . . . . . . re 'poachers and the assault by Thomas , his wife and the other chap  . Maybe all four of them were poachers/criminals and thats why they got off with it so lightly . Dukes up over some swag   Might even be related to each other  in some way.

[hanleyp]

Corkscrew thinking.

Another reason to find mass general labour workers
River Derwent Yorkshire
In 1702 an Act of Parliament was passed authorising its proprietors to improve the river. Towpaths were laid out and "locks, turnpikes, pens for water, wharfs and warehouses" were constructed. The promoters of these works were allowed to charge tolls on the cargo carried on any part of the river.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Derwent,_Yorkshire

QU- Did Thomas's dad move there with Thomas and his wife to work on the river around 1704 or much later but by 1730 the river work was finished and Thomas found local work

Maybe his dad was an Irish digger worker ?


[/Thomas only came to Sutton in 1725 --so does not fit..Also Thomas is firts hanley mentioned in bmd of parish

Thanks anyway --appreciate your inpit

Phil Hanley

[Redroger]

re 'Irish' workers . I dont think there would have been many Irish in Yorks at this time , Irish migrants came over more in the mid to late 1800s. . . . . . . . . re 'poachers and the assault by Thomas , his wife and the other chap  . Maybe all four of them were poachers/criminals and thats why they got off with it so lightly . Dukes up  over some swag   Might even be related to each  in some way.

Maybe not, but researching my ancestors in Lincolnshire (next county) I found there have been Irish Labourers coming into the county to work in agriculture since the 17th century at least. So they may well have been coming then.