Is there a pathologist out there? COMPLETED WITH THANKS.

[Nottschick]

My body of my great grandmother was pulled from the river at Trent Bridge in 1913.  She was known to live a fair distance away in a street which went down to the river and had vanished from her home leaving the door open. 

Today a cousin of mine has found the Coroner's report in the newspaper which says that there was no proof of suicide.  I know that there were family issues going on at the time which she may have found difficult to cope with, including a son-in-law not of the best character. 

I would be interested to know about the medical knowledge of the time regarding any certainty about whether or not she was dead before she went into the river.

NC.

[meles]

I think the issue is, that there was a presumption against suicide in those days as it was seen as shameful.

My grandfather left a suicide note, so there was no option but to give that as a reason for death. But it was still "suicide whilst unsound of mind", which gave the family some comfort to think he was temporarily insane.

If there was no proof of suicide, then the Coroner would avoid such a decision.

It does not quite answer your question, but I hope it supplies some interesting background.

meles

[Nottschick]

Thank you for your thoughts.  I'm hoping for lots of interesting input on this question especially as I knew nothing of her cause of death until about 10 years ago. 

NC.

[Erato]

"I would be interested to know about the medical knowledge of the time regarding any certainty about whether or not she was dead before she went into the river."

No evidence of suicide doesn't necessarily mean that it might have been a homicide.  The other alternative is accidental drowning.  In the absence of eye witnesses, a suicide note, or prior statements indicating suicidal intentions, there would be no reason to call it suicide rather than accidental death and, as meles pointed out, that would be a more socially acceptable verdict.

[Nottschick]

There are so many possibilities.  There is no mention in the report of the inquest about Police involvement (would they have been informed 100 years ago?) or the results of a post mortem. 

Was an incident like this really treated in such a casual manner at that time?  Pick a body out of a river, have a quick inquest and job done?

Any further thoughts please? 

NC.

[Skoosh]

If she was dead before she entered the river there would be no water in the lungs, fairly elementary my dear Watson and 1913 wasn't exactly the Dark Ages. I saw this on the box!

Skoosh.

[Nottschick]

Comments of this nature are insulting, Skoosh. 

I am trying to ascertain the medical knowledge and procedures of 1913. 

I would appreciate it if you would not respond further.

NC.

[Billyblue]

I'm sure Skoosh didn't mean to be irreverent, NC.
Whether people knew this in 1913 is a moot point, but they would have had some elementary understanding, to be sure.
If you google drowning forensics you'll get quite a few websites, though maybe not a 'history' of it.
Try this one:
http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/drowning.html

Do you know if your ggm knew how to swim?  Note the website says a lot of drownings in the UK are because people don't know how to swim, and panic, with resultant asphyxiation.

If the coroner says no proof of suicide, trying to prove otherwise might only give you and your family unnecessary grief.

Dawn M

[Flattybasher9]

I am in Scotland, so things are slightly different.
My Gt grandmother was found dead in a house in Aberdeen.
The death cert shows a "Procurator Fiscals report" linked to her death which I have read and found out exactly what the cause of death was.
Perhaps, there is a similar thing in England, where there is a CPS or similar for that time, report as an addendum to her death certificate. You may get more information than what was posted in the press.

Regards


Malky