Married in the church before it was built?

[northernsearcher]

Many thanks again Stan, I now have the marriage.  I got it from Family Search.  Am I right in thinking that if I could get access to the original record it would have the names of the  bride and groom's fathers? The reason I ask is N&DFHS has a transcript of Monkwearmouth St. Peter marriages 1583-1837.  If there is more information it might be worth getting it.
Jen

[stanmapstone]

Hi Jen
Father's names will not be given in 1835. Under Hardwicke's Marriage Act 1753, and the later 1812 Act, the information recorded in the parish register is the names of the bride and groom, their parish, the date and place, whether the marriage was by banns or licence, the consent of the parents if either of the couple were under the age of 21, the marital status of the bride and groom, and the names of witnesses. Occupation and the parents names are not given.
You can see examples of parish registers from various periods at http://www.durhamrecordoffice.org.uk/Pages/Parishregisters.aspx

Stan

[northernsearcher]

Yet again and again many thanks Stan a very useful site,

Whatever else family history research is doing to me (keeping me awake at night, boring my family and friends, pestering people on RootChat etc.) its certainly keeping my brain working (I hope!). Perhaps its time to post a new thread to see if anyone can track William Holt Douglass's parents and/or christening.

Thank you
Jen

[northernsearcher]

just completing I think!

[2zpool]

There is an Elizabeth Holt baptised in Penshaw All Saints 23 Oct 1785 d/o Henry and Elizabeth of Biddick.

The name Holt can be spelled a numbert of ways so I found a baptism of a sibling of Elizabeth Holt in Penshaw


Thomas Hoult born 18 Aug 1800 baptised 2 Sept 1800 4th son of Henry Hoult, pitman, native of this chapelry by his wife Elizabeth Brough native of this chapelry.

Sadly there is a burial of Elizabeth Hoult on the same day as the baptism (not unusual)  Elizabeth Hoult of South Biddick whife of Henry Hoult, pitman, native of this chapelry.  Died 31 Aug 1800 buried 2 Sept 1800, age 37

Later the son without a mam Thomas dies but there is a bit of confusion over the maiden name of the wife:

Thomas Hoult, South Biddick, died 2 Oct 1800, buried 3 Oct 1800, age 7 weeks, son of Henry Hoult by his late wife Elizabeth Jackson, native of this chapelry

The last name might also be found as Hought and Hout

North Biddick was in the parish of Washington Holy Trinity and South Biddick fell under Penshaw Holy Trinity  (sometimes seen as Pensher and Painshaw, mostly pronounced Pensher)

There is a baptism of a Bridget Hoult in Washington born 12 may 1797, baptised 22 oct 1797 d/o Henry and Elizabeth Hoult of Old Engine Stables.  Died 6 Feb 1799, buried 8 Feb, age 1 3/4, the Old Stables d/o Henry Hoult, pitman and his wife Elizabeth

I think I settled the Jackson/Bough debate:  Penshaw marriages 24 Oct 1784 Henry Holt and Elizabeth Jackson, the witnesses were regulars of the parish

Still working on some of the others

Janis

[northernsearcher]

Janis,
Thank you so very much for this. I think this is really going somewhere. William's family have been a brick wall of mine for some time.

I found 2 marriages on GENUKI which I think make some sense of Elizabeth Brough/Jackson and fit with your findings.  They are:

Both marriages below are Penshaw Church of all Saints
25 Dec 1777  John Jackson = Elizabeth Brough from GENUKI
24 Oct 1784  Henry Holt = Elizabeth Jackson from GENUKI

I also thought that if I could get to some of the family on the '41c this might make the link between Elizabeth Douglass on the '61c born Biddick and the Elizabeth Holt baptised Penshaw All Saints of Biddick.
No luck so far but will keep trying.

Jen

[2zpool]

I have the parish film from Penshaw.  The Jackson one didn't say she was a widow in the banns or the marriage--but no one else was either so sounds like that wasn't the practice at that time.

Burials:

John Jackson jr 19 May 1783, Biddick
John Jackson 28 Sept 1783, Biddick

Janis

[WolfieSmith]

The baptisms of some of the Douglass children at the Scotch Church on Bridge Road, Monkwearmouth. Witnesses and Parish of Nativity may be helpful.

John, son of William Douglass of the Parish of Jellygate, Durham, and of Elizabeth Burn, his wife, of the Parish of Monkwearmouth, was born on 1st May 1836 and baptized on 22nd May 1836, in the presence of Alexander Hooper, Elder, and William Bainbridge.

Elizabeth Bainbridge, daughter of William Douglas of the Parish of Bishopwearmouth, and of Elizabeth Burn, his wife, of the Parish of Monkwearmouth, was born 17th April 1837. Baptized 8th May 1837 in the presence of Alexander Hooper, Elder, and Mary Spencely.

Sarah Burn, daughter of William Douglas of the Parish of Durham, and of Elizabeth Burn, his wife, of the Parish of Monkwearmouth, was born 1st March 1839. Baptized 24th March 1839 in the presence of Alexander Hooper, Elder, and Robert Douglas.

John Burn, son of William Douglass of the Parish of Durham, and of Elizabeth Burn, his wife, of the Parish of Monkwearmouth, was born on 20th February 1841 and baptized on 14th March 1841, in the presence of Alexander Hooper, Elder, and William Tinmouth.

So, on three of the four baptisms, William gives his birthplace as Durham, specifically Gillygate (Gilesgate) on one of them. And a Robert Douglas was a witness at one baptism, so could be his father or brother.

One of the witnesses was a Mary Spenceley. There is this family in 1851 census.

329 High St., Wapping Middlesex.
Richard Spenceley, 58, Ships Chandler, employing 13 men, b. Sunderland,
Mary Spenceley, wife, 57, b. Sunderland,
Richard Jackson Spenceley, son, 21, Chemist, b. Sunderland,
Ann Spenceley, 23, dau, b. Sunderland,
Mary Ann Burn, 18, Visitor, b. Sunderland,
HO107/1550/33/21

Mary Ann Burn would appear to be Elizabeths sister, so the Spenceleys may be related.

Mary Anns baptism :

Mary Ann Storey, 2nd daughter of John Burn, of the Parish of Monkwearmouth, and of Elizabeth Bainbridge, his wife of the Parish of Sunderland, was born 16th April 1833, and baptized 12th May 1833 in the presence of Alexander Hooper, Elder, and Eleanor Bainbridge.

Alan.

[WolfieSmith]

A few other baptisms.

Walter Bainbridge, 4th son of John Burn of Monkwearmouth Parish, and of Elizabeth Bainbridge, his wife, of Sunderland Parish, was born 10th June 1831. Baptized 19th June 1831 in the presence of William Craig, Elder, and Mary Spenceley.

Ann Storey, daughter of John Burn, Rope Maker, of Monkwearmouth, and Elizabeth Bainbridge, his wife, of Sunderland, was born 26th April 1828, and baptized 26th May 1828 in the presence of these witnesses, John Brown and Alexander Hopper, Elders in the Scotch Church Monkwearmouth.

Charles, 3rd son of John Burn of Monkwearmouth Shore, Rope Maker, and of Elizabeth Bainbridge, his wife, of Sunderland, Resident Monkwearmouth Shore, was born 31 Dec  1825 and said child was baptized 24th January 1826 in the presence of Messrs Bainbridge and Hooper.

Elizabeth, born 8th Apr 1816, baptized 5th May 1816. First daughter of John Burn, Ropemaker, Native of Bishopwearmouth, and of Elizabeth Bainbridge (Native of Sunderland).

A possible baptism at Monkwearmouth.
John, son of John and Isabella Burn of Monkwearmouth Shore, born 6 Nov 1791, baptized 27 Nov 1791

Alan.