downings of kilberry downing

[dukewm]

to urubu76,

I see this is over 5 years old, but hope you are still "on the lookout".
We need to talk further.
You mention a James Downing of "Kilberry Downing".  He is later than my focus, but I would suggest "Kilberry" is actually Killyberry Rd, which terminates directly across the street from the entrance to Rowesgift House, which was gifted to John Downing on his 1727 marriage to Anne Rowe, by her father, Revd. Simon Rowe, Rector at St. Tida's Church of Ireland, Bellaghy.

John was the 2nd son of Col. Adam Downing of Rocktown, a little further north near Gulladuff.
There were many Downings in the area, including a branch we call the Dreenan Downings, many of whom were RC, that I have not been able to connect to Adam's tree, but am sure there is an unproven connection.

Do not get thrown off by the different spellings.  For example, George Downing of Maghera, was (supposedly) the son of George Downinge of Ballykelly (NE of Derry City), and Henry DOWNEY, whom I met and interviewed this past May, told me his grandfather changed the name from DOWNING to DOWNEY.  Seeing where he lives in relation to Adam's old "castle", and based on him telling me he was the 7th generation Downing to live on that site, I am convinced there is a connection to the Dreenan branch because he is RC and his parents are buried at St. Mary's, Lavey Parish on the A42 just north of Gulladuff.
I also saw two grave markers in the Lavey Parish yard, both slabs laying flat on the ground.
One was for John Downing, d. 1847, and his wife, Nancy, d. 1861.  The other was for Dawson Downing, d. 29 Jan 18?? (the year was difficult to read, but it looked like 1865).  I have a Dawson Downing in my tree, buried in the Downing vault at St. Tida's in 1807, so I thought it unusual for such a unique forename to be duplicated.  There was a connection to the Dawson family by the marriage of Sarah Downing, dau of the aforementioned John of Rowesgift, to Adm. Charles Dawson in 1760, but my Dawson, Sarah's brother, was born in 1739.  Perhaps the families were close before.

John of Rowesgift had another son named (Capt.) John, b. c.1740, who had two sons named John and James, but I have no dates, although I would estimate they were both born about 1765 +/- a few years.  The following generation could have included other 'Johns' and/or 'James' and their descendants.  Unfortunately, 'John Downings' were a plenty.

Anyway, please reply and we can discuss further.
I suspect your James may have descended from one of my branches and I have a ton of data to share.

Rick

[aghadowey]

You mention a James Downing of "Kilberry Downing".  He is later than my focus, but I would suggest "Kilberry" is actually Killyberry Rd, which terminates directly across the street from the entrance to Rowesgift House, which was gifted to John Downing on his 1727 marriage to Anne Rowe, by her father, Revd. Simon Rowe, Rector at St. Tida's Church of Ireland, Bellaghy.

Location of Killyberry Downing- Griffith's Valuation and Valuation Revision Books should make it possible to find exact location of property there.
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/loughinsholin/ballyscullion/killyberry-downing/

As well as Rowesgift there was also a very old house called Rowan's Gift in Drumlamph townland (about 2 1/2 miles from each other.)

[dukewm]

exactly; Killyberry Downing is bisected by Killyberry Road

[urubu76]

Hi Rick,
Nice to hear from you and I'm pleasantly surprised to find a possible distant Downing kinsman.
re. Downing farm ; It seemed to be approximatly 30 acres, One third was given to Edward Downing,
James' brother who died about 1900. The census of 1901 and 1911 names John Downing and wife Susan  and also his daughter Annie born ca 1900.
I believe Annie married  Andrew Scullion in 1924 and had some offspring.She is buried in the Belaghy church yard with Andrew and the gravestone appears to be quite new.
Patrick Dawson Downing ,my mothers father was a Nationalist firebrand all of his life. He did not volunteer in 1914, he went out India in 1918, but assaulted one of his Indian workers and was
sent back to UK. He oddly enough said the reverse of your Downing /Downey story and maintained
that the name was changed to Downing to appear more 'English,'
I'm not sure how to get in touch with you,you can contact me on facebook under Jaimie Hanley

[dukewm]

Hi Jaimie,
I have searched FB, picked the most likely from a list, and sent you a message via Facebook.
Please reply to confirm, or deny, and I'll send you my email so we can further the discoveries.
Rick T

[dukewm]

Hi Jaimie,

I messaged the only result on Facebook by your spelling, who appeared to be a Brit and I figured I had the right individual, but he responded last night saying "wrong guy", so perhaps the next best thing is to give you my email right here


(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.


I suspect your John, b. c.1805 may have been the son of one of two brothers, John or James Downing, the two known sons of Capt. John Downing, b. c.1740.  Capt. John and his older brother, Dawson, signed the deed to Rowesgift House on 10 Oct 1785, one month before their father died.   Rowesgift is just up the street from the Townland of Killyberry Downing.
I estimate that Capt. John's sons were both born about 1765, give or take a few years.  It's quite likely that they both stayed near Rowesgift, settling at Killyberry.
Additionally, the fact that your John (b. c.1805) named a son James and James had sons he named John, DAWSON, and James, makes it virtually certain that your branch is connected to Capt. John and much more above him, which I have extensive data on.

Please drop me an email and we can proceed from there.
Have a good day,
Rick

[dukewm]

I see this is 5 years old, and hopefully, you have discovered new info since, but just in case . . .
this is in reply to Reply # 5 , dated 12 Dec 2013, by julesmc.

You mention that Catherine McCann, as shown in the 1901 Census, was b. 1866, assuming her reported age was accurate (often NOT the case), was supposedly Catherine Downey, formerly Downing.
Another respondent commented that the spellings were interchangeable, which is true to some degree.  However, it is quite possible that your Catherine was a sister of Henry DOWNEY of Drumard.

Also on the 1901 Census, you can find a family group headed by Henry DOWNING.
Henry is listed with his wife, Teresa, 3 sons, and 4 daughters, ranging in age from 11 to 2.
The eldest daughter was named Catherine, age 10, so she would have been born about 1891.
It's possible, and with a fairly high degree of probability, that if her maiden name was DOWNEY, she could very well have been a sister of Henry DOWNING of Drumard, keeping in mind that the total population of this area is rather sparse.  Henry reported his age as 43, so if he was truthful, he would have been born about 1858.  It was common for the Irish to honor forefathers and siblings in naming their own children.  It's possible Henry named his first daughter in honor of his sister, your Catherine, b. 1866.
Another clue is that, Henry changed the spelling of the family name to DOWNEY from DOWNING, sometime between the 1901 and 1911 Census.  The same family group is listed under DOWNEY in 1911.  By that time, Catherine was married to McCann, but she would have been associated with Henry's spelling change.

I have a lot of data on the DOWNING/DOWNEY branches further back, but would like to fill in some blanks in the 1800's.  Willing to share.

Hope this helps,
Rick

[Kiltaglassan]

The eldest daughter was named Catherine, age 10, so she would have been born about 1891.

For reference-
Catherine born in 1891.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02403/1896286.pdf

KG

[aghadowey]

Also on the 1901 Census, you can find a family group headed by Henry DOWNING.
Henry is listed with his wife, Teresa, 3 sons, and 4 daughters, ranging in age from 11 to 2.
The eldest daughter was named Catherine, age 10, so she would have been born about 1891.

Catherine Downing born 1891- mother Terresa McErlain-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02403/1896286.pdf

It's possible Henry named his first daughter in honor of his sister, your Catherine, b. 1866

.
Usual, but not always followed, naming pattern was first daughter after mother's mother, seconf after father's mother, etc.

You mention that Catherine McCann, as shown in the 1901 Census, was b. 1866, assuming her reported age was accurate (often NOT the case), was supposedly Catherine Downey, formerly Downing.

Daniel McCann married 1885 Catherine Downey of Leitrim townland, daughter of David Downey-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1885/10866/5968087.pdf
Not sure why reply #5 wonders who Catherine's parents were since her father's name at least is clearly recorded.