Author Topic: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY  (Read 16941 times)

Offline iforani

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Need help on this g grandmother, please. This query has already been posted in Cousins Connect magazine & elsewhere by a cousin of mine but have had no replies. My g grandmother, who was supposedly born Mary Ann SMITH, daughter of William & Eliza SMITH in Parramatta on 24/11/ 1868 (15893/1869 SMITH, Mary A . She is my mother's maternal grandmother who was known as Annie or affectionately MEM. When she was married to Edward Imlay AIKEN on 17th June 1895, in Geelong (VIC BDM 3390/1895)on the marriage certificate it states Elizabeth Mary Annie Muriel STANLEY, lists father as Thomas Charles STANLEY (publican) who was actually a jockey from Campbelltown who won the Melbourne CUp on Glencoe..and Emma Fieldhouse.
A birth certificate dated 20th June 1872 , for an Elizabeth Mary Stanley lists the father as Thomas Charles STANLEY (jockey) & Emma Fieldhouse.
But an Elizabeth Stanley (the real one) married a Richard Hawkey Hoskin on 1st march 1899.
On her death certificate, Edward's wife was called Muriel Annie, daughter of William SMITH & Eliza Cooper.
Muriel Annie used various names on the birth/death certificates of her children, viz
 Elizabeth M H M (sic)
 Elizabeth MAM
 Annie M
 Muriel A
 Muriel Annie

Also their first born son was named Stanley CC (supposedly Charles Stanley, after the alias father)

They had 8 children. The eldest child was Muriel Victoria AIKEN, born 23 June 1895, Geelong, VIC. (ie several days after they married). VIC BDM 11853/1895 On this birth entry, they stated that thbey were married in 1894, when they actually married in 1895.
My mother was brought up by her grandparents & finds it hard to believe that her grandmother may have been (was by all accounts) pregnant when she married. Her grandparents were very Victorian. When her grandfather's daughter from his first marriage became pregnant out of wedlock she had to leave the home (and both of her children were put up for adoption).
The connection with the Stanley family is unknown at this stage. I do know that Muriel Annie's uncle (Charles) owned a hotel in Campbelltown & the Stanleys & Fieldhouses owned hotels there too. When I was investigating the heritage of William SMITH I came across a SMITH family with a son born (at the time my William SMITH would have been born,) ie 1845 with a direct connection to the Stanley family. If William Smith (mine) was in this SMITH family, then the William SMITH & Charles Thomas Stanley would have been step cousins. However it appears (from research from ROOTSCHAT members) that my William SMITH was born in Drayton, QLD (which align more with anecdotal evidence that he was born in Qld).
Muriel Annie, was she the daughter of William & Eliza Emma SMITH or was she the daughter of someone connected with the STANLEYS??
Deb
McKay (Kildare, Ireland), Aldred (Manchester), Smith, Cooper (Kent), Howlett, Bodill, Atkins (Northamptonshire), Smart (UK, Africa), Brown, Bryant, Dixon, Walton

Offline sparrett

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 14 July 12 08:12 BST (UK) »
My g grandmother, who was supposedly born Mary Ann SMITH, daughter of William & Eliza SMITH in Parramatta on 24/11/ 1868

Deb, you do not make it quite clear (to me anyway) whether you have the certificate for this birth.

I understand you have certificates for other events mentioned, but this birth?

Sue
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Offline wivenhoe

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 14 July 12 08:21 BST (UK) »



"....But an Elizabeth Stanley (the real one) married a Richard Hawkey Hoskin on 1st march 1899.
"

What real one please, what does this mean.


Where you have several birth certificates with variations of mother's name, is mother the informant?

Can you indicate how mother is named when mother herself is informant please?

What else from the marriage certificate...ages of bride and groom....his occupation...who are the witnesses...what religion?


Offline majm

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 14 July 12 09:18 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

On your other thread (re William SMITH) at reply # 21 you mention Mary Ann's dad used aliases....   
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,606139.0.html

Well...if my William is the son of the William SMITH (alias Thomas SMITH, alias William Thomas Charrington )

So, it could well be that your Mary Ann SMITH knew that, and simply chose to copy Dad and use an alias or more of her own choosing too, and thus avoid being Mary SMITH.

I am not familiar with Vic Records, but I do know that RChat has this wonderful thread about the depth of details on Vic BDMs
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html


Cheers,  JM
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Offline mum mum

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 14 July 12 09:25 BST (UK) »
Hi
I'm confused, if her marriage certificate says that her parents were 'Stanley' what tells you that she was born a Smith?
Have you been told by family members that this was her birth parents names?

Is your Grandmother still alive so that we can't mention her name?

mum mum
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Offline Neil Todd

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 14 July 12 09:32 BST (UK) »
The Mary A Smith born to a William and Eliza born at Parramatta was born 1869 not 1868. This was from a marriage of William Smith and Eliza Groves.

There are 8 other siblings from the looks of things. There are sveral William and Eliza Smiths as would be expected.

To have the correct person you would need to match Birth, Marriage and Death Certificates.

Neil
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Offline sparrett

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 14 July 12 09:36 BST (UK) »
well Neil,
That answers my query in reply 1#.
It looks like the birth has certificate is not held.

The marriage of WILLIAM SMITH and ELIZA COOPER was at WEE WAA. (3566/1868 )

Sue
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Offline majm

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 14 July 12 10:02 BST (UK) »
They must have returned to NSW  ::)

NSW ER 1903 PARRAMATTA
Edward Imlay AIKEN, of Katoomba,  engineers’ representative
Muriel Annie AIKEN, of Katoomba domestic duties

Cheers,  JM
 
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Offline iforani

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Re: ? Muriel Annie(nee Smith)AIKEN,born Mary Ann SMITH, alias E M A M STANLEY
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 14 July 12 10:38 BST (UK) »
Thanks guys.
JM, you are almost right..it was the grandfather of Muriel Annie who used the aliases (ie the William Smith/Charrington) ...am not sure whether she had much to do with him but if we were right then he lived out most of his life in Qld , while the SMITHs (William & Eliza & family) lived in Parramatta, NSW. She would have heard about the use of his aliases though no doubt.
Yes, Edward & Muriel did move back to NSW & I have the details of all of their children (in depth) including the drowning deaths of 2 of their children at Dunedoo. My mother grew up with her grandparents (who took her away from her parents).
Neil, yes I do have the birth certificate of Mary A Smith born in 1868 to William & Eliza SMITH (Eliza's mother, Mrs COOPER & Grandmother, Mrs HOWLETT are listed as witnesses)...NOT the Eliza nee GROVES. But thanks for this. Definitely Eliza COOPER.
Sue, yes I did order a marriage certificate but what I received was a copy taken from an original page where there are several marriages listed (attached). Info as follows
Groom Edward Imlay Aiken (company manager) Divorcee, June 1893,,,address Federal ? Palace, Melbourne, VIC , Usual address Sydney, parents...Unknown Aiken (naval officer) & Sophia Atkins..
Bride Elizabeth Mary Annie Muriel STANLEY (Domestic duties) address Melbourne Usual address Sydney,,parents Charles STANLEY (Publican) & Emma FIELDHOUSE
Date of marriage..17th June, 1895.
No info from the witnesses ...these appear to be registry office witnesses...Caroline Roswell & Harry Hanslow...same witnesses at other marriage...not people who I recognise (& I'm familiar with all of Edward's & Muriel Annie's siblings & their partners..and children).
I forgot to mention that my mother has helped me with the names of siblings of Muriel Annie, including their partners, children, legitimate & otherwise. It looks like she is who she claims to be, ie Mary Ann SMITH ..the birthday she celebrated was the birthday on the birth certificate of Mary Ann Smith. My question is...WHY did she use THIS alias (ie the Stanley one) & why did she have to use an alias at all, when her sisters had children out of wedlock? I am completely baffled by this woman who was quite beautiful in her younger days, who looked like from the photos take of her that she had never worked in her life, when she came from a very poor family & supposedly being the oldest would have been scrubbing floors from a young age & helping raise the growing family (particularly if the father worked away from home (stockman) in her younger days. There's something that just doesn't gel here. My mother knew her sisters (Mum's aunts) who visited frequently. What i'm asking is..does any one have any ideas why she would have used this particular alias & WHY would she continue with the charade for years after the birth of her first 2 children. Was marrying a divorcee so horrendous in those days?? Her husband was older but from what I've read, many women married older men & vice versa. Edward's family had a higher social status than Murie'ls (SMITHS) so it is possible that she lied to him about who she was, or lied for the benefit of his extended family.  I thought that she may have actually been the illegitimate daughter of the STANLEYS or at least Emma (nee Fieldhouse) & I did order the birth certificate of a ROSA Stanley born to an Emma Stanley & an unknown father in 1869, but the mother & place of birth of this Emma Stanley were different from the other Emma.
Hope that I've answered your questions. Please get back to me if I haven't.
Cheers
Deb
McKay (Kildare, Ireland), Aldred (Manchester), Smith, Cooper (Kent), Howlett, Bodill, Atkins (Northamptonshire), Smart (UK, Africa), Brown, Bryant, Dixon, Walton