Author Topic: smith look up please  (Read 1456 times)

Offline franpow

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smith look up please
« on: Tuesday 24 May 05 20:41 BST (UK) »
One Richard Smith believe born 1824 Hertfordshire. As a Convict sent  in 1844 to Australia.
Believed married 1854 no name there sorry.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one, as it's such a common surname.


Offline Rick

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Re: smith look up please
« Reply #1 on: Friday 27 May 05 14:31 BST (UK) »
Hi franpow

The problem you have, is that you do not have a father's name or a possible location for the birth. Also as you rightly say, SMITH is a very common name!

There is one baptism for a Richard SMITH around the right time on the BVRI, but, there may be dozens of baptisms that are not listed on the BVRI!

SMITH, Richard   
1 Sep 1822   
Pirton, Hertfordshire
Parents; Luke Smith & Sarah
FHL Film 1040655   

The only Richard SMITH that I can find who was transported from Herts in 1844 was as follows.

Richard SMITH, 19 of Watton, sentenced to 7 years transportation for Larceny - stealing a knife, property of James HORNETT.  Sentenced at the Herts Easter Quarter sessions.  Transported to Van Diemens Land - 11 August 1844 aboard the William Jardine.

All I can suggest, is that you try to find more biographical information from HALS.  A father's name might be mentioned in the court documents for example.  I would also ask HALS to check baptisms at Watton for the right time period, though of course you could hire the Watton films for viewing at your nearest LDS Family History Centre in Oz.

HALS will charge for this, but they offer up to half an hour's research for 5, so you could do it query by query, to keep costs down. 

http://www.hertsdirect.org/libsleisure/heritage1/HALS/halsremote/halsresearch

Unless someone is going to HALS and is happy to check for you, then I'm afraid that this seems to be your only option.

I will check Watton in 1841 to see if Richard is there and get back to you later.

Rick :)
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Rick

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Re: smith look up please
« Reply #2 on: Friday 27 May 05 15:28 BST (UK) »
Hi franpow

I checked Watton in 1841 but there was no sign of Richard. I did find the following SMITHS who may or may not be related. The 41 census does not give relationships or place of birth, just whether or not they were born in the county. Adult ages tend to be rounded to the nearest 5.

HO107/437/8 Folio 8
Watton
Herts.

SMITH

Jacob, 48, Ag Lab, Yes
Mary, 40, Yes
George, 20, Ag Lab, Yes
John, 17, Yes
Mary, 14, Yes
Maria, 10, Yes
Sarah, 7, Yes
William, 3, Yes

HO107/437/8 Folio 12
Watton
Herts.

SMITH

William, 37, Ag Lab, Yes
Elizabeth, 36, Yes
Thomas, 14, Ag Lab, Yes
Elizabeth, 10, Yes
George, 5, Yes
Margarett, 2, Yes

HO107/437/8 Folio 14
Watton
Herts.

SMITH

William, 50, Ag Lab, Yes
Mary, 50, Yes
Maria, 20, Yes
Charles, 17, Bricklayer, Yes
Ann, 14, Yes
Thomas, 11, Yes


HO107/437/8 Folio 20
Watton
Herts.

SMITH

James, 45, Ag Lab, Yes
Charlotte, 40, Yes
Catherine, 12, Yes
Emma, 11, Yes
George, 9, Yes
James, 4, Yes
William, 1, Yes

HO107/437/8 Folio 22
Watton
Herts.

SMITH

William, 55, Yes
Phillis, 45, Yes
William, 30, Ag Lab, Yes
Daniel, 15, Ag Lab, Yes
Maria, 20, Yes

Rick :)




Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline franpow

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Re: smith look up please
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 05 June 05 23:04 BST (UK) »
You have worked so hard to find these for me, thank you so much it's wonderful that you should go to these lengths.
Many thanks again
Fran

Offline franpow

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Re: smith look up please
« Reply #4 on: Monday 06 June 05 16:12 BST (UK) »
Yes, that is the Richard Smith that may have married my great great
grandmother.  On the marriage certificate in 1854 it states that he is 30
years old and his death certificate in Victoria (another Australian state)
at age 61 in 1886  fits for a birth year of 1824.  This convict Richard
Smith was (I think)  the son of George and Elizabeth (nee Hornet) Smith.
Richard was convicted of stealing from his Uncle James Hornet.  I have
Richard  being born in Datchworth, which is just near Watton (the place you
 mention rick).  Would it be any trouble to ask you to check the 1841
census for this family of Smiths in Datchworth, Hertfordshire.   
What I cant verify is if this Richard married my gg grannie.  All the dates
fit, but the real problem lies in the fact that a researcher in Tasmania,
Australia claims the right Richard Smith was a fellow born in 1821 in
Tasmania. Another researcher says it was the convict.  AAARRRHHH!!!!
However there is no proof either way which is the right Richard.  If he was
the convict it is understandable that he would want to hide his past and
therefore not give correct information on BDM certificates.   If he was the
Tasmanian born Richard it doesnt make sense that he tried to cover his past,
unless he had done something bad in Tasmania and was trying to cover his
tracks by moving to Victoria.
I am very impressed that you  have come up with the information on the
convict Richard.  Thank you Rick for investigating this for me.  I am very
grateful.

Offline Rick

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Re: smith look up please
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 07 June 05 10:08 BST (UK) »
Hi Fran

I checked Datchworth in 1841, but there was no sign of Richard I'm afraid. I did find the following SMITHS. Relationships within families and place of birth are not given. Yes or No refers to whether or not they were born in the county. Adult ages tended to be rounded to nearest 5.

HO107/436/6 Folio 5
Datchworth
Herts

SMITH

Joseph, 35, (No occupation given) Yes
Rebecca, 10? Yes

SMITH
William, 50, Publican, Yes
Martha, 50, Yes
Margaret, 20, Yes
Martha, 15, Yes

Folio 6
Datchworth
Herts

SMITH

Benjamin, 40, Farmer, Yes
Ann, 50, Yes
William, 12, Yes
Mary, 11? Yes
 

Folio 16
Braggers End
Datchworth

SMITH

Mary, 40, Yes
John, 20, Ag Lab, Yes
Mary, 12, Yes
George, 9, Yes
Henry, 4, Yes


Folio 19
Hollybush Cottages
Braggers End
Datchworth

SMITH

James, 70, Pauper, No
Mary, 75, Yes

It is always difficult when there is more than one candidate. All I can really suggest is that you find out as much as possible about the 2 Richards. It may be that you will never be entirely certain about who is the right one, but if you can gather enough information, you will be able to decide who in all probability might be.

Best Wishes
Rick :)

 

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline K Rees

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Re: smith look up please
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 15 May 16 15:35 BST (UK) »
Hi
I am also looking into a Smith family, and in particular, a William Smith b. 1821 to a Benjamin Smith and Mary of Hertford. This William was also sent to Hobart  but in 1842.

I mention this as the above Mary Smith (40) in Datchworth may indeed be his mother, and separated from the father Benjamin Smith, who may have been born in Wellingborough Northampton (1788). As yet I have not located him in the 1841 Census; however, I strongly believe the Benjamin Smith in Butchery Green Hertford (1851), may be the father of William Smith b. 1821 Hertfordshire. He was a Brazier.

In the 1861 Census, the father Benjamin Smith is 73, living with a daughter Jemima Mansfield in Butchery Green, Hertford.

When first brought before the court in Nov 1841, the son William, was called William, alias Tinker Smyth.

Now to find a Benjamin Smith in Hertfordshire 1841, born in Wellingborough, Northampton, and maybe a Brazier/millwirght/blacksmith or even carpenter as claimed later by his son.

The ironical thing of this research into William Smith is that he was convicted of highway robbery on Bulls Mills Lane, north of Hertford; and when he died in Ballarat, Australia in 1882, he owned the Robin Hood Hotel.

Keith
Rees: innkeeper/farmer/solicitor, Haverfordwest, Wales; Menzies: innkeeper, Glen Lyon, Scotland;
Tomkins: merchants, London; Lee: farmers, Watford Village, Northamptonshire; Pocock, teachers, Bristol; Grace: doctors, cricketers, Gloucestershire; Day: lithographers, London; Clark: teachers, Folkstone.
Banks: farmer/curriers/shoemakers, East Ham, Bermondsey, East End