19th Century German gypsy!

[Buttonphobic]

Does anyone know about German gypsies in the 19th century? I have an ancestor that regularly travelled from his home town in Tries Germany to Brighton with a group of musicians? Wondering if this could be my gypsy link.

[aghadowey]

It was certainly common in 18th century for German bands to travel overseas but that doesn't mean they were gypsies.

Correction: should read 19th century not 18th century   

[Skoosh]

German gypsies were not uncommon in Scotland before the Great War. One group had their caravans diverted away from the Cromarty Firth by the police as they were suspected of spying on the naval base.
 I remember seeing a photograph of them being escorted through Dingwall.

[Romany Knaves]

Hi,
German Gypsies were sometimes called Black Dutch! [not so often as Black German] "Chicanere Roma" because of their skin colour a lot of the Black Dutch went to the New World mid 1700's some did come and settle in the British Isles most of them hid their Heritage, in the then New World they married with the natives and non white people's, Valentine/Valentyn was an early Dutch surname used by Gypsies, Lee [Leah] can be found in Northern Germany and I do believe that a Clan of the Boswells came from Holland you also had an influx of Hungarian Gypsies arrive around mid 1800's, borders were more open prior to 1900 no passports just free to rome but not so good for us researching our ancestors.

[Berlin-Bob]

It was certainly common in 18th century for German bands to travel overseas but that doesn't mean they were gypsies.

German gypsies were not uncommon in Scotland before the Great War

So he could be a german gypsy musician, or he could be just a german musician. 

Can you supply names and any details you have, please.

regards,
Bob

[Romany Knaves]

Hi' Again
 A good starting point would be for you to reveal the surname or surnames that you are researching to us Root Chatters to see if we can help you some more.

[Skoosh]

The pic' of the German Gypsies passing through Dingwall in 1907,
http://www.ross-shirejournal.co.uk/Features/Reflections/New-telephone-exchange-for-Munlochy-20062011.htm

Skoosh.

[Skoosh]

The story of the Dingwall pic'    http://alnessarchives.8m.com/page5.html

More of them in Galloway,
 http://futuremuseum.co.uk/Collection.aspx/galloway_travellers/Object/german_gypsies

They were possibly here to escape persecution in Germany. Bismark sought a solution to the gypsy problem long before Hitler.

Skoosh.

[Buttonphobic]

Thanks everyone for your help so far. My German ancestors are as follows
Casper Lemmer b 1817 in Treis an der Lumda, Germany

Johannes Adam Lemmer( Caspers father) b 1785 Winnen, Germany
married Elizabeth Grolz

Sebastian Lemmer (Johannes' father)b 1759 Leidenhofen, Germany
married Anna Catherine Wilhelm (born Winnen 1755)

Johann Peter Wilhelm (Anna's Farther) b 1724 Winnen
married Anna Frantz of Winnen

I obtained most of this information from parish and Lutheran church records.

Casper was a musician who along with around 20 other musicians from Treis travelled over here each year during the late 1830's.

There is however another German link because Casper's son Carl Printz Lemmer (myGreat Grandad) married the daughter of Johann Adolph Hermann. In 1881 The Hermanns were living in St Pancras . Johann was a cabinet maker who had been born in Germany but most of his children were born in Belgium. He was born in 1845 and eventually served time for cruelty to his wife,  Someone on this forum kindly spotted this in an article in The Morning post on 18/4/1875. At the time he was living in Seaton Street (presumably London)I know nothing else about this family other than that my great grandmother was dark skinned!  Anyone know how accessible prison records are from this era?