Author Topic: Augustin Bardouleau Of Mile End (1791) - One or two?  (Read 4507 times)

Offline diplodicus

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Augustin Bardouleau Of Mile End (1791) - One or two?
« on: Monday 03 September 12 18:11 BST (UK) »
My stepmother's family name was Bardouleau  and I can trace her ancestors back to about 1791. Augustus Bardouleau appears in the census and in BMDs but there is one mystery around which I can't seem to get my head.

I have the 1870 probate record for Augustus Phidelceas Bardouleau of White Horse Lane, Mile End Old Town and whose effects passed to his son Charles Hard (should be Hart) Bardouleau.

I also have the 1816 Southwark Christ Church's Marriage Register showing the marriage between Augustin Fulgentius Bardouleau and Elizabeth Roze(sic) Hart. Augustin actually signed the register as Augustin Fulgentius Bardouleau.

It is easy to assume these are one and the same but I would rather be certain if possible.

Any suggestions?

(p.s. You will find then as "Bardoulean" and several other transmogrifications :o
Thomas, Davies, Jones, Walters, Daniel in Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion. That should narrow it down a bit!
Vincent: Fressingfield, Suffolk, Stockton & Sunderland.
Murtha/Murtaugh: Dundalk & Sunderland
Ingram: Cairnie by Huntly, Scotland then Abergavenny, Monmouthshire.
Bardouleau: London - in memory of my stepmother Annie Rose née Bardouleau who put up with a lot from me.
gedmatch.com A006809
Kit uploaded to familytreedna.com B171041
Y-DNA R-M269 & mtDNA U5b1f

Offline mc8

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Re: Augustin Bardouleau Of Mile End (1791) - One or two?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 03 September 12 20:21 BST (UK) »
Hi diplodicus

Well I wouldn't say they are the same , but they are certainly related

I think the witnesses to the marriage could be the source of a solution
was there another Hart who married into the family-if John Hart was Elizabeths father, did he have other daughters?
Can anyone read the full name of the second witness? Ann Bardouleau Comfort Hart???
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline diplodicus

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Re: Augustin Bardouleau Of Mile End (1791) - One or two?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 03 September 12 21:33 BST (UK) »
I think they are two people:

  • Ann Bardouleau
    Comfort Hart
Thomas, Davies, Jones, Walters, Daniel in Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion. That should narrow it down a bit!
Vincent: Fressingfield, Suffolk, Stockton & Sunderland.
Murtha/Murtaugh: Dundalk & Sunderland
Ingram: Cairnie by Huntly, Scotland then Abergavenny, Monmouthshire.
Bardouleau: London - in memory of my stepmother Annie Rose née Bardouleau who put up with a lot from me.
gedmatch.com A006809
Kit uploaded to familytreedna.com B171041
Y-DNA R-M269 & mtDNA U5b1f

Offline Valda

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Re: Augustin Bardouleau Of Mile End (1791) - One or two?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 03 September 12 22:28 BST (UK) »
Hi

The census returns would confirm it is the same man.

1841 census HO107 713 Bk2 folio 14
Regent Street Stepney Middlesex
Augustin Bardouleau 50 Greengrocer
Elizabeth Bardouleau 50
Augustin Bardouleau 14
Charles Bardouleau 12
Two sons not born in county
Adult ages, those over 15, usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census.

1851 census HO107 1553 folio 472
White Horse Lane Mile End Old Town Middlesex
Augustin Bardouleau 62 Head Married Fishmonger Bow Middlesex
Elizabeth Bardouleau 60 Wife Married St Luke's Middlesex
Augustin Bardouleau 22 Son Fishmonger St Saviour Surrey
Charles Bardouleau 25 Son Fishmonger St Saviour Surrey
Mary Avenell 62 Sister-in-law Widow Bermondsey Surrey

Mary Herbert widow married Edward Avenell 9th February 1824 Christ Church Southwark. Augustin Bardouleau was a witness as was Augustiana? Bardouleau.
Mary Hart spinster married James Andrew Herbert 1st November 1814 Christ Church Southwark. Elizabeth and Comfort Hart were witnesses. Comfort Hart was a witness to the 1816 marriage at the same church.

1861 census RG9 296 folio 94
4 White Horse Lane Mile End Old Town Middlesex
Augustin Bardouleau 73 Head Married Fishmonger Bow Middlesex
Charles Bardouleau 32 Son Married Fishmonger Southwark Surrey
Arletta? Bardouleau 26 Wife's son? Married Stepney Middlesex
Henry Bardouleau 8 months Son Stepney Middlesex
Plus 1 lodger

Charles H Bardouleau is with his 10 year old son Henry S on the 1871 census.


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Eyesee

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Re: Augustin Bardouleau Of Mile End (1791) - One or two?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 04 September 12 05:53 BST (UK) »
St Mary Magdelene Bermondsey
1779 Apr 25, Comfort, d/o Richard & Mary HART, Gluemaker, Langham, born Mar ??

St Lukes, Finsbury
1788 Jun 24, Elizabeth Rose, d/o Richard HART Gentlemans serv. & Mary, born May 20

Comfort HART married Michael MURPHY at Lambeth St Mary on 24 Jan 1819. Her signature is a match for the witness at the Bardouleau/Hart marriage in 1816.

Ian C
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Valda

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Re: Augustin Bardouleau Of Mile End (1791) - One or two?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 04 September 12 09:32 BST (UK) »
Hi


4th November 1781 St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Mary Hart parents Richard and Mary, Long Lane, ather's occupation glue? Maker


Regards

Valda

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline diplodicus

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Re: Augustin Bardouleau Of Mile End (1791) - One or two?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 04 September 12 10:12 BST (UK) »
As always, my sincere thanks to you all. The Hart and Avenall connections are really useful but ...

(There's always a "but" ...)

Supposing they were TWINS?

One's a greengrocer and t'other is a fishmonger??

I don't know why I am being so cautious; it's not like me. I just find these two different names disturbing.

Malcolm
Thomas, Davies, Jones, Walters, Daniel in Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion. That should narrow it down a bit!
Vincent: Fressingfield, Suffolk, Stockton & Sunderland.
Murtha/Murtaugh: Dundalk & Sunderland
Ingram: Cairnie by Huntly, Scotland then Abergavenny, Monmouthshire.
Bardouleau: London - in memory of my stepmother Annie Rose née Bardouleau who put up with a lot from me.
gedmatch.com A006809
Kit uploaded to familytreedna.com B171041
Y-DNA R-M269 & mtDNA U5b1f

Offline diplodicus

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Re: Augustin Bardouleau Of Mile End (1791) - One or two?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 04 September 12 10:21 BST (UK) »
Just for the record, Charles Hart Bardouleau became a successful businessman owning six properties in White Horse Street, in what is now Stepney. His six children were still living and procreating in the area at the beginning of the 20th century.
Thomas, Davies, Jones, Walters, Daniel in Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion. That should narrow it down a bit!
Vincent: Fressingfield, Suffolk, Stockton & Sunderland.
Murtha/Murtaugh: Dundalk & Sunderland
Ingram: Cairnie by Huntly, Scotland then Abergavenny, Monmouthshire.
Bardouleau: London - in memory of my stepmother Annie Rose née Bardouleau who put up with a lot from me.
gedmatch.com A006809
Kit uploaded to familytreedna.com B171041
Y-DNA R-M269 & mtDNA U5b1f

Offline Valda

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Re: Augustin Bardouleau Of Mile End (1791) - One or two?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 04 September 12 11:21 BST (UK) »
Hi

The 1841-1861 censuses are the same family. On the 1841 census Augustin is a green grocer and in 1851 and 1861 a fishmonger.

In 1870 Charles Hart Bardouleau probated his father's estate (letters of administration). He skipped attempting the middle name on his marriage in 1854 and his father's burial. He may not have heard the middle name used very often and may have been unclear how it was spelt. Augustin wasn't around at that point to correct the spelling.

Does the Prerogative Court of Canterbury will for Rene or Renatus Fulgentius Jacobus Bardouleau of Lambeth probated in 1834 clarify further? He was 77 on burial but perhaps not a direct ancestor for Augustin.

Unlikely to be twins both with the first name Augustin.


Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk