Author Topic: James and Andrew Murray  (Read 4303 times)

Offline liz_bern

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James and Andrew Murray
« on: Monday 10 September 12 02:43 BST (UK) »
I am trying to find what happened to James and Andrew Murray sons of William Murray and Agnes Murray (nee Jamieson).  James was born 26 April 1860 and Andrew born 17 November 1862.  They also had a son William Murray (my grandfather) who was born I think about 1878.

It is understood that James and Andrew went to America, but not sure if this is true.

William and Agnes were married on 9 December 1859.

James and Andrew were born in Tillicoultry, Clackmannan.

Hope someone can help me.

Cheers Liz

Offline Piglet01

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Re: James and Andrew Murray
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 11 September 12 18:30 BST (UK) »
Hello Liz,

You infer that you're unsure of your grandfathers birth date or year, but sure of his siblings.   Do you have a copy of his birth entry? Do you have a copy of William or Agnes death entries?  With the info you give, the likely family on the 1881 census is the one below.  From the LDS census record.

Dwelling:   27 Commercial Buildings
Census Place:   Tillicoultry, Clackmannan, Scotland
Source:   FHL Film 0203535     GRO Ref    Volume 468    EnumDist 5    Page 6

Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace

William MURRAY   M   48    M   Alloa, Clackmannan, Scotland
Rel:   Head
Occ:   Woolen Weaver

Agnes MURRAY   M   43    F   St Ninians, Stirling, Scotland
   
Rel:   Wife

Andrew MURRAY   U   18    M   Tillicoultry, Clackmannan, Scotland
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Mechanic In Factory

William MURRAY       3    M   Tillicoultry, Clackmannan, Scotland
   Rel:   Son

It would seem that by this time James has left the family home.  I've learnt through experience to get all the census records to look for a 'window' when people are missing as well as the death entries to see who the witness to the death was. 

Regards,  Steve

Couldn't help it - went and got Williams birth entry - b.  22 May 1877. Address as above.


Offline liz_bern

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Re: James and Andrew Murray
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 12 September 12 02:52 BST (UK) »
Hi Steve,  that is wonderful, all I have managed to get so far is their marriage certificate from Scotlands People.

The William age 3 in the census is my grandfather.  He and his family emigrated to New Zealand in the early 1920s.

Family grapevine goes that the two older brothers emigrated to the States but have no-one left in the family to corroborate that.  It is always the way that you get interested in genealogy after all your family members that can help you are deceased.  I didnt realise that the two older boys were considerably older than my grandfather.  It is also interesting that gg grandfather William comes from Alloa as we have a family greatgrandfather clock which was made in Alloa.

I now dont know exactly where to go to find out more about James and Andrew.   Will have to think on that for a while and you never know something may come up.

Thankyou once again.

Cheers Liz

Have just had another look at marriage cert of William and Agnes and he is listed in 1859 as 19 and she is listed as 21.  So wonder how their ages have changed with the census.  Maybe he didnt like being younger than her and changed his age.

Offline Piglet01

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Re: James and Andrew Murray
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 12 September 12 11:46 BST (UK) »
Hello Liz

I'd always take the census ages with a pinch of salt - you can expect them to be out by a few years.

It is a strange gap - possibly several miscarriages?   However, my wife has one in her family who are all alive - currently  :)

If you pm me your e-mail address, I'll pass on the birth entry for William.

 :)
Update:  Went looking for a death of Agnes as a lady is always easier to find due to the 2 surnames  (looking to see who the informant was) .  Agnes Murray aged 79 widow of William Murray, weaver died on 23 Oct 1914 at 73 High Street,  Tillycoutry - informant was her brother James Jamieson.

It's an excellent quality entry.  Once again pm and I'll forward it.  This would indicate that the boys as you believe had left the country.