Author Topic: Death certificate  (Read 7105 times)

Offline heilanlassie

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Re: Death certificate
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 05 March 13 11:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Don't rule out the Scottish death certificate purely on the mothers name, the information is supplied by the informant and, as many of us with Scottish ancestors have found, the informant can get it wrong. According to reply#1 GHR Bell who died 19th Feb 1940 was born Newcastle upon Tyne. I would look for a marriage between GHR Bell and Jane Calder, if it was in Scotland then it should name both his parents.

Andy

Thanks Andy
I have downloaded the marriage certificate which shows that a Harold Bell married a Jane Calder on 13 September 1927 at 54 Castle Street, Aberdeen.
Harold Bell states that his age is 28 years (which would have meant he was born in 1899) and that his parents were Henry Bell, deceased, a coal miner and Elizabeth Bell, formerly Riddell.

The mystery of my family members remain - a mystery.......................
Researching the names Mckenzie / Mackenzie from Ross and Cromarty especially Scoraig and Rherivach.

The names Fraser, MacGillivary and Grant from Daviot & Dunlichity.

The name of Fraser from Lanarkshire.

The name of Bell from Northumberland.

The name Chilla / Chylla / Chyla from Poland.

Offline IMBER

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Re: Death certificate
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 05 March 13 16:00 GMT (UK) »


The mystery of my family members remain - a mystery.......................

Do you really think so? How many people in the UK were named George Harold Russell Bell and about the same age? Very few. Of those few how many had a father named Henry Bell? And if that doesn't resolve it then how many of the Henry Bells were coal miners? The 1911 Bedlington census records Henry as a coal miner as does George's marriage certificate. I would say that the only question remaining is to establish why George named Elizabeth Riddell as his mother, noting that at least her forename matched expectations.

Imber
Skewis (Wales and Scotland), Ayers (Maidenhead, Berkshire), Hildreth (Berkshire)

Offline heilanlassie

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Re: Death certificate
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 21 February 17 19:10 GMT (UK) »
Having felt challenged by the above I have been digging around unsuccessfully for some months.  Then this morning I was just sitting at the computer waiting for my wife and grandson to get ready so that I could take them to work and school when I made a breakthrough. I just don't understand why I hadn't found this before but on ScotlandsPeople I located his record of death. He died outwith Aberdeen (which may explain why I'd missed him before) at Dyce on 19 February 1940. He died of a haemorrhage from a duodenal ulcer. The record shows him as a Private in 10th (HD) Battalion, Gordon Highlanders. The informant was his wife, Jane Calder.

This enabled me to search for his marriage which I discovered took place in Aberdeen in 1927. Interesting that his occupation then was recorded as Private (Gordon Highlanders). Encouraged by all this I managed to find a 1938 newspaper report that he had been imprisoned for two months for failing to support his two children. Following up on this there seem to be a number of likely children on Scotlandspeople.  The nature of his death and identification of his wife suggests that he was buried. That being the case his grave would qualify for war grave status if it could be located
whereas at present he is commemorated on the Brookwod Memorial in Surrey. There are at least 200 precedents for graves being marked by the CWGC subsequent to commemoration on the Brookwood Memorial.

I'm back on this research trail, and wonder where you found the 1938 newspaper report.
Would I be able to find it online?
I shall also have to try and hunt down the possible children from this marriage. I feel spurred into action again  :P  :P
Researching the names Mckenzie / Mackenzie from Ross and Cromarty especially Scoraig and Rherivach.

The names Fraser, MacGillivary and Grant from Daviot & Dunlichity.

The name of Fraser from Lanarkshire.

The name of Bell from Northumberland.

The name Chilla / Chylla / Chyla from Poland.


Offline IMBER

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Re: Death certificate
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 08 March 17 10:09 GMT (UK) »
I found the newspaper report on Findmypast. It's in the Aberdeen Press and Journal for 1 June 1938. His address in Aberdeen differs from his family so perhaps there were issues at that time, although his death was registered by his wife.

Imber
Skewis (Wales and Scotland), Ayers (Maidenhead, Berkshire), Hildreth (Berkshire)

Offline heilanlassie

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Re: Death certificate
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 08 March 17 13:33 GMT (UK) »
I found the newspaper report on Findmypast. It's in the Aberdeen Press and Journal for 1 June 1938. His address in Aberdeen differs from his family so perhaps there were issues at that time, although his death was registered by his wife.

Imber

That sounds interesting, and thank you for taking so much time to try and find answers for me.
As my subscription to FindMyPast has now expired, I shall endeavour to find someone to perhaps download it for me.
Again, I thank you very VERY much.
Researching the names Mckenzie / Mackenzie from Ross and Cromarty especially Scoraig and Rherivach.

The names Fraser, MacGillivary and Grant from Daviot & Dunlichity.

The name of Fraser from Lanarkshire.

The name of Bell from Northumberland.

The name Chilla / Chylla / Chyla from Poland.

Offline IMBER

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Re: Death certificate
« Reply #32 on: Friday 30 October 20 16:05 GMT (UK) »
After your last post on this subject and having given it further thought I became convinced that a married man who lived locally must be buried in Aberdeen or thereby. I was encouraged by the fact that myself and a pal had just managed to identify the grave of a war casualty in Moray and put a case to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) to have it marked with a CWGC headstone. This detailed submission was successful and in due course the headstone was erected. That was in 2017.

To cut a very long story short by June 2019 I was in a position where I was able to submit Bell’s case to the CWGC. I heard nothing back until earlier this week when the CWGC informed me that they had accepted my claim that Bell was buried in Aberdeen Trinity Cemetery. He was in a lair owned by the local branch of the Royal British Legion, Scotland but when I had approached them about this they responded that knowledge of their involvement had been lost over the years. The CWGC have now amended Bell’s record on their website and have ordered up a headstone. This is always a lengthy process given the hundreds they have to produce each year and is made worse by the fact that unlike the Commission’s standard Botticino limestone headstones, which are made in France, all Scottish headstones are made from granite. They anticipate the headstone will be in place by the middle of next year.

In such cases CWGC will always try to make contact with surviving family and they do so by placing a notice on their website:

https://www.cwgc.org/our-work/news/appeal-for-relatives-30-october-2020/

Obviously very few relatives see such an appeal unless perhaps the story is picked up and featured by a local newspaper. Given the amount of time I had spent on this case I had a pretty good feel for the structure of the Bell family and the CWGC were happy for me to approach possible candidates to make them aware of this development and give them an opportunity to get in touch with their Enquiries Team. I have now written to three people who I suspect are grandchildren. They may or may not be interested in any of this but at least they will have the option of pursuing matters further.

I think I recall correctly it is your husband who has Bell links and so I hope that this satisfactory outcome pleases him and enables you to focus your energies in another direction!

Imber

Skewis (Wales and Scotland), Ayers (Maidenhead, Berkshire), Hildreth (Berkshire)

Offline heilanlassie

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Re: Death certificate
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 31 October 20 12:44 GMT (UK) »
After your last post on this subject and having given it further thought I became convinced that a married man who lived locally must be buried in Aberdeen or thereby. I was encouraged by the fact that myself and a pal had just managed to identify the grave of a war casualty in Moray and put a case to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) to have it marked with a CWGC headstone. This detailed submission was successful and in due course the headstone was erected. That was in 2017.

To cut a very long story short by June 2019 I was in a position where I was able to submit Bellís case to the CWGC. I heard nothing back until earlier this week when the CWGC informed me that they had accepted my claim that Bell was buried in Aberdeen Trinity Cemetery. He was in a lair owned by the local branch of the Royal British Legion, Scotland but when I had approached them about this they responded that knowledge of their involvement had been lost over the years. The CWGC have now amended Bellís record on their website and have ordered up a headstone. This is always a lengthy process given the hundreds they have to produce each year and is made worse by the fact that unlike the Commissionís standard Botticino limestone headstones, which are made in France, all Scottish headstones are made from granite. They anticipate the headstone will be in place by the middle of next year.

In such cases CWGC will always try to make contact with surviving family and they do so by placing a notice on their website:

https://www.cwgc.org/our-work/news/appeal-for-relatives-30-october-2020/

Obviously very few relatives see such an appeal unless perhaps the story is picked up and featured by a local newspaper. Given the amount of time I had spent on this case I had a pretty good feel for the structure of the Bell family and the CWGC were happy for me to approach possible candidates to make them aware of this development and give them an opportunity to get in touch with their Enquiries Team. I have now written to three people who I suspect are grandchildren. They may or may not be interested in any of this but at least they will have the option of pursuing matters further.

I think I recall correctly it is your husband who has Bell links and so I hope that this satisfactory outcome pleases him and enables you to focus your energies in another direction!

Imber

Gosh, I can't believe that you are still on the hunt for information on this man - who would have been my husband's great uncle.
Why is he entitled to a CWGC headstone, when he didn't actually die in the war?

I am also interested to read that you have written to three possible relatives of his.
The only relatives I have discovered are children that he had with his wife, Jane Calder.
They are named as Harold Bell, 1928 - 2002, and George Russell Bell (who may still be alive), born in 1930.
Researching the names Mckenzie / Mackenzie from Ross and Cromarty especially Scoraig and Rherivach.

The names Fraser, MacGillivary and Grant from Daviot & Dunlichity.

The name of Fraser from Lanarkshire.

The name of Bell from Northumberland.

The name Chilla / Chylla / Chyla from Poland.

Offline IMBER

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Re: Death certificate
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 31 October 20 14:24 GMT (UK) »
If you recall, you found him on the CWGC Brookwood Memorial in Surrey. He qualified for inclusion there because he had died in service in 1940. Unfortunately, George Russell Bell (1930) died in 1931. As far as I can see Harold Bell (1928) had two children. One died last year; I have written to the other. George Harold Russell Bell (1896) also had a daughter Frances, born in 1925 and registered under the Calder surname as Frances Bell. As you can imagine that wasnít easy to find, particularly because the records showed her as a boy named Francis! I asked them to correct that and I assume they have done so. As far as I can see Frances had two children and I have also written to them. I hope Iíve got that right but if not then no doubt they will tell me. Of course, they may have no interest in any of this, but the options are there if they wish to make contact with the CWGC.
If I can provide you with any further information just let me know. If it starts to get sensitive then perhaps use the private message option. We could always exchange email addresses if needs be.
Skewis (Wales and Scotland), Ayers (Maidenhead, Berkshire), Hildreth (Berkshire)

Offline nikkid

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Re: Death certificate
« Reply #35 on: Monday 02 November 20 20:59 GMT (UK) »
Don’t know if this your relative but saw this on the Aberdeen & NE Family History Society facebook page
It caught my eye as my mother had a half brother called Ronald Bell whose father was George Russell Bell. I had done some looking on Scotlands People regards the name and found the Calder/Bell marriage as well as George Russell Bell being the father of Ronald to my grandmother (not married) Possibly not connected at all though.I’d be interested in the newspaper article to see if there is a connection .
Matthews/Hutcheon/Strachan - Methlick & Aberdeen
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