Author Topic: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In  (Read 18805 times)

Offline deb usa

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #81 on: Friday 28 September 12 22:37 BST (UK) »
Hi Nick

You sure do keep 'strange' hours LOL  ;D ...why on earth were you up til 4am??

The reason I went with the Goulburn "William C, school master" is that his dau Mary Robertson Chilsholm had lived and died there (according to the records I found) ...that is if I have the right Daughter.

You said you had  found; " 1 Sep 1856 birth of a Mary Robertson Chisholm who's parents were William Chisholm and Mary Cameron" ..Was this in Goulburn?

Also where in NSW did William C and Mary Cameron marry? I am so hoping the answers are Goulburn!  8)

well done on spotting the 1867 letter and the difference in the death of WC in 1864. I didn't ! :-[ :-\

I need to search further as I'm sure I did see a death for him an just assumed it was the 1864 one.... assuming is a NO NO! LOL


wiil have a look for the death.
deb
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline nickgc

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #82 on: Friday 28 September 12 22:55 BST (UK) »
Nice old pic of Novar Arms (which still is in operation... wonder if they have history/photos, etc?)

http://www.ambaile.org.uk/en/item/item_photograph.jsp?item_id=59785

I should have given a link for the Wm Chisholm marriage.  Here it is:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZ3-PKQ

In case that doesn't work, I used the Australia section of family search; selected marriages 1810-1980 database and searched for william chisholm.  He is first hit.  Doesn't specify anything other than NSW  (which I always thought meant photographs that were "Not Safe for Work").  :P

And, I am nearly always up until 4 am... I am trying to change my evil ways.

Nick
McLellan - Inverness
Greer - Renfrewshire
Manson - Aberdeen & Orkney
Simpson - Hereford, Devon, etc.
Flett - Orkney
Chisholm - Scotland
Wishart - Orkney
Shand - Aberdeen
Pirie - Aberdeen

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Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there.   -Robert Heinlein

Offline deb usa

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #83 on: Friday 28 September 12 23:13 BST (UK) »
Okay I thought I was going mad ....the article regarding the letter from the Rev. William Ross was transcribed in the body of the letter as 1867 and not 1857. The article was published: Tuesday 15 December 1857. the Rev. handed William the letter at the conclusion of the examination.

Tuesday 15 December 1857
GOULBURN GRAMMAR SCHOOL - The usual annual examination of the pupils of Mr. Chisholm's Goulburn Grammar School took place on Thursday last; the Rev. Mr. Ross kindly undertook the task. At the conclusion Mr. Ross handed the following letter, to Mr. Chisholm :

Manse??, Goulburn,
16th December, 1867.
Dear Sir,
I am happy etc. etc.


I wonder if the 1864 death is correct ... William had been through a lot after the death of his daughter and his insolvency ...maybe he did move away because of the 'scandal' of it all ...or did he go to his relatives...remember Isabella Murdoch was in Australia, although I am not up on my Australian geography ...sorry  8)

deb
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline nickgc

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #84 on: Friday 28 September 12 23:49 BST (UK) »
I did a search on Novar Arms and one of first hits was a 2 yr old RC thread.  I posted this:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,478196.msg4660959.html#msg4660959

I also wrote to Novar Arms asking if they had any history and am hoping for old photos.

Thanks for pointing out the 1867 was a mistranscription - I probably wouldn't have caught it.

I was thinking along the same lines, with some additional ideas:  William marries, possibly for the first time, when he is about 40-41; has a child 15 months later; she dies probably before she is 2 yrs old; he can't pay his bills and loses what he owns.

The 1858 date of his daughter's death could have more significance if the school also closed/moved that year, or if his grief kept him from working, or his wife's grief demanded his full attention; all kinds of possibilities.  I've seen what the death of a child can do to a family.

Add all this to a family tendency to die relatively young and...

Nick

 
McLellan - Inverness
Greer - Renfrewshire
Manson - Aberdeen & Orkney
Simpson - Hereford, Devon, etc.
Flett - Orkney
Chisholm - Scotland
Wishart - Orkney
Shand - Aberdeen
Pirie - Aberdeen

-----
Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there.   -Robert Heinlein


Offline deb usa

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #85 on: Saturday 29 September 12 00:18 BST (UK) »
Hi Nick

Wow ... look at the owners from the other thread:
Established 1856. George and Margaret Munro were there in 1891 and up to WWI

Do you think it stayed in the family? The Munro Family!

It looks like such a lovely place as does the area around  Invermoriston, where Murdoch bayne had his Inn. I have never been to Scotland .... I was born in Devon, UK ...my travels took me to many other places but not Scotland.... maybe one day!  :D

Sounds like William had a lot on his plate during 1858 ..so sad! It doesn't appear like they had any other children. I wonder what happened to his wife? I did search for her in the newspapers but have no way of knowing if I have the right person.

I did note somewhere that I had found a W Chisholm who had gone to Sydney University or a school in Sydney ...I think... and had got a first class pass in grammar. The people who had passed were referred to as gentlemen and not boys which leads me to think they were adults. I remember it was around 1844 ...I wonder if he was your William?

deb

PS my gr gr grandfather was a publican/tobacconist and also a proprietor of a pub/Inn/hotel in Exeter in Devon. It was named the Elmfield Hotel and was recently named the Jolly Porter. :)
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline majm

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #86 on: Saturday 29 September 12 04:14 BST (UK) »
  Hi there,

Re William CHISHOLM,  and the death at Forbes NSW in 1864.   
The dc should give you how long that chap had been in the Colonies, details of his marriage/s, the children of these including if then living or deceased, his place of birth, the cause of death, the name of the medico attending him, if an inquest or police enquiry was held, where he was buried, the denomination and other family history information, including his occupation.

From Greville’s Official Post Office Directory of 1875 for FORBES
Forbes was an important township in the police district of Forbes, electorate of The Western Gold-fields, county of Ashburnham and 239 miles south west of Sydney.  The township (a municipality) is situated on the north bank of the Lachlan river, in the vicinity of once exceedingly rich gold-fields, and supports one newspaper the “Forbes Times”
Two of the locals were
Mrs M CHISHOLM, teacher, Spring St
Henry HUNT, teacher, Brown St

I can see H H HUNT, at the National School FORBES in an offline resource dating from mid 1860s .
I can see Henry H HUNT, a freeholder at Forbes on the NSW Electoral Roll of 1870.  I can also see a George CHISHOLM, a resident (ie not a freeholder) at Forbes on that same Electoral Roll, and still there on the 1878 Electoral Roll, still qualified to enrol as a resident.  (Henry H HUNT was still a freeholder on that same roll).
Noting:
You needed to be a British Subject (either by birth or by naturalisation) AND a male AND aged at least 21 years of age to be eligible to enrol to vote.   It was NOT compulsory to enrol, and the rolls were established and maintained by the Police Magistrates or their delegated representatives.   From 1788, ALL persons (regardless of their parentage, or the native place of the parent/s) born in the colonies were automatically British Subjects until around 1949, and then all constitutional/legal separations finalised when Britain and the EU connected in around 1986.   

Margaret H CHISHOLM, of Forbes, date of Death 18 October 1890,  Probate granted 8 January 1891.  Deceased Estate file indexed at NSW SRO at this link  (Probate Packets held by the NSW SRO can contain a great deal of family history information.  Sometimes there is just one page in the packet, but other times there are hundreds of pages.  In some instances on my own tree (I am very NSW centric, because on several lines my forebears arrived when NSW was still a penal colony),  NSW Probate Packets have included BDM certificates issued to support identifying the beneficiaries of the estate, along with witness statements including names of their forebears etc). 
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=15

Two deaths are registered at Forbes for 1890 for the surname CHISHOLM.  One is for Margaret J, and her parents given names were recorded as James and Ellen.  The other death is for a George Chisholm (likely the chap I noted on the Electoral Rolls).    May I note that George’s date of death was 11 October, a week earlier than Margaret’s) and there is a Probate Packet held by NSW SRO for him also.   I should also note that NOT all deaths resulted in a Probate Case before the NSW Supreme Court.  It depended on the value of the deceased estate.

Here’s a link to the 1872 Grevilles Post Office Directory.   I have cited from my hardcopy of their 1875 Directory. 
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hcastle/grevilles/grevilles.html

http://home.westserv.net.au/~ffhg/  This is the link for the Forbes family history group.


Cheers,  JM   
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Offline majm

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #87 on: Saturday 29 September 12 04:45 BST (UK) »
Re Margaret H CHISHOLM's dc, the informant knew the given names of her parents, this suggests to me that the informant had good knowledge about her as Nick has already posted the link showing some of the details from the parish registers for her marriage in 1855.  The familysearch.org's teams of volunteers have a current project transcribing those Early Church Records, which contain details not included in the NSW BDM's Early Church Records.   

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline nickgc

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #88 on: Saturday 29 September 12 07:31 BST (UK) »
Hello JM,

Sorry but I am confused.  Who is Margaret H. Chisholm?  The Chisholm in NSW was William, and in 1855 he married Mary Cameron.  Mary's father (from the wedding registration) was James, but I don't think it is likely that the Mary Cameron who wed Wm Chisholm is the same as the Margaret Chisholm who died in Forbes in 1890.

Excuse me if I am reading this wrong; I am a bit loopy after working on this family almost constantly for the past week.

Nick
McLellan - Inverness
Greer - Renfrewshire
Manson - Aberdeen & Orkney
Simpson - Hereford, Devon, etc.
Flett - Orkney
Chisholm - Scotland
Wishart - Orkney
Shand - Aberdeen
Pirie - Aberdeen

-----
Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there.   -Robert Heinlein

Offline majm

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #89 on: Saturday 29 September 12 08:00 BST (UK) »
Sorry but I am assuming that Mary is poor transcription for Marg ....
TheNSW BDM index first prepared 1930s from very poor originals

JM on e reader pls excuse
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.