Charles James Baines

[cfb]

Any information on Charles James Baines would be welcome. He was adopted by Thomas and Frances Baines and was believed to have been born in King's Lynn in January 1852.  He lived in King William's Town South Africa once married, but spent time in Johannesburg.

[Annette7]

Can you give your sources for this information?    Cannot find a Thomas Baines married to a Frances in Norfolk - the only Thomas Baines bc.1800 Lynn was married to an Ann and there is no Charles with them at any time.

Annette

[The Mc]

There is a Thomas Baines who married Frances Watkins in 1838 in the Uppingham Reg. District which centres on counties around Rutland. Uppingham itself is probably about 50 miles from Kings Lynn so it is a possibility.

Is this him on another family tree? There are South Africa connections.....

http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?charles,james,baines::baines::581.html

[hugatree]

Hi everyone

Thomas and Frances can easily be found in the 1851, 1861 and 1871 census with their 2 daughters and 2 sons. Thomas is a carpenter and parish clerk.  On those census returns there is no sign of a Charles James, so that might indicate there is no connection with this family.

Hugs

[hugatree]

Hi again

There is another Thomas and Frances Baines in Castle Bytham, Lincolnshire in 1861, he is a wheelwright. 3 daughters and a son but no Charles James.  However, this family seem to disappear after 1861 so could they have taken in Charles James and gone to Sotuh Africa between 1861 and 1871?

Hugs

[hugatree]

This site is listing a book by Charles James Baines(Gould) author and printer in South Africa and its about  printing practices

http://www.find-a-book.com/db/book776_20433.html

There is a family of Thomas and Fanny Baines from the Wirral, on the 1851 census Thomas was a newspaper proprietor.  They had a son Charles J born c1845.  I can't find them after 1851. Too much coincidence?

Hugs

[hugatree]

ok, have now found them in 1861, Thomas is a Parliamentary agent.  Charles still with them as a scholar aged 16

[Annette7]

I agree wholeheartedly with Hugatree.

I believe your Charles James Baines was born 28/3/1845 Irlam, Lancashire, son of Thomas Baines and Fanny Higgins (per online tree and aforementioned census).   He had 3 brothers and 3 sisters - can account for all 6 of them, and the deaths of Thomas and Fanny but there is no further sign of Charles James Baines after the 1861 census.   No marriage, no death, or appearance in census in the UK after 1861.    It all fits that he could have ended up in South Africa  but appears to have been a natural son and not adopted.   I can't find any trace of him in military service records unfortunately.

The family were quite well to do and his siblings all seemed to marry well too.  The family were in London in 1861 and Fanny died there - death Dec.qtr.1861 Wandsworth.   Thomas still in London 1871 but was back in Lancashire in 1881.   1881 Census shows him as a boarder, late Parliamentary Agent, born Leeds (ref.RG10 - 3695 - 6 - 6).   His death is reg'd Dec.qtr.1881 West Derby, Lancashire.

A Public Tree on A...y has a picture of his father Thomas (and his father Edward.
Thomas b.8/4/1806 Leeds (familysearch), son of Edward Baines, MP and Charlotte Talbot.   You can glean more by looking at the tree.

There is certainly no family that fit in Norfolk and the Charles James Baines b.1845, son of Thomas and Fanny (pet form of Frances), effectively 'disappears' between 1861 and 1871 never to be seen in English records again.

Annette   

[cfb]

Hello All you kind people,
I will have to sit down and read all the messages carefully to piece it together. The reason why I said he was adopted, was because he told his daughter, Doris, my grandmother. He also told her, when she was little and they stood in front of a statue of Queen Victoria, that she was his Grandmother and that was why he was brought to South Africa. He must have been well educated and raised, because he was an aquaintance of Cecil John Rhodes. Of course this could all be fantasy on behalf of my grandmother and then my mother. I have not done the maths yet, but I would imagine that he would have been too old to have been one of the queen's grandchildren. I have seen his last will and testament in the archives and am planning another visit, so will tell you if I find anything else.
Thank you Annette.