William Newbould (and family)

[ThrelfallYorky]

I think, after searching all over, I may be on the track of a missing Ann Elizabeth Newbould, b. c 1855 Derby - but I'm not sure, and before I go too far down that track, I'd like to try and find out if there was a Newbould / Bamford or Basford marriage in the 1840s - 1850s in Leicestershire area.

After hunting through census and birth records for many areas, looking for an Ann (or Elizabeth, or both together) Newbould of the right age, with father William and possibly another relative (witness at marriage) Joseph, and a false start as her eldest two children were born in Yorkshire, and I'd interpreted the "Derby" given in 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses as "Darley" in Yorkshire, I recently found a most likely candidate as a grandaughter with a Basford or Bamford family in 1861 in Derby.
But I believe that the parents - she later gives a "William Newbould", a joiner, as her father - may have married a few years earlier, in Leicestershire somewhere. They certainly are not in the same household at that census.
I know she married in 1874, to William Isherwood, in Yorkshire; and almost all the rest of her life she lived in Lancashire, in Southport. Can anyone in Leicester suggest anything to help me establish which of the many "William Newbould"s who seem to have been all over Derbyshire, South Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire may be worth following up?

[Annette7]

The Basford's had a daughter Elizabeth bc.1829/30 - she married, I believe, William Newbold in Mar.qtr.1854 Derby.   However, William's page no. recorded as 540 but looking at the original page is should be 640 which is the matching page number shown for Elizabeth Basford.

However, the 'Lizzie' shown with the Basford's in 1861, was it would appear both born and baptised as Lizzie (bp.20/2/1855 All Saints, Derby, dau. of William Newbold and Elizabeth).    She is still single in 1881 (visiting Woodhouse family) and married in 1883 to a Ernest Carter Brown.

So, Lizzie does not appear to be your Ann, nor is the Elizabeth Ann reg'd Mar.1856 who is the daughter of a Samuel and Rhoda.

However, there is the birth reg'd of an Ann Newbold Jun.1855 Derby but I cannot find her on 1861/1871 Census, nor does there appear to be a death for her.

FindMyPast baptisms show an Ann Newbold was baptised 1855 at St. Alkmund, Derby - however, no full date or parents are shown and the data provider is given as Derbyshire Family History Society and I'm assuming that they must charge to give out the information.

At the moment, the most likely candidate would appear to be Ann born/bp'd 1855 although I have no idea where she was in 61/71.

Annette

[ThrelfallYorky]

Ah, thanks Annette7, that's eliminated yet another potential William from being "my" Elizabeth Anne's father.
That's the problem: I agree, the 1855 one from St Alkmund's looks to me the likeliest - but as I cannot find her with her family on any 1861 or 1871 census I've looked on, I cannot link her to the Elizabeth Anne who married William Isherwood in 1874, who most firmly is "mine".
I thought the Leicester one may be a blind alley - but I've hunted her all over, as I said. Thank you for helping me by eliminating that Elizabeth and parents/grandparents. I appreciate your help and kindness.

[Annette7]

I have now viewed a copy of Ann's marriage certificate which has raised 2 issues:

1. You said at the start of the thread that her father was William, a joiner, but in fact on the certificate it just states he was a labourer.

2. I'm wondering where you've got 'Elizabeth' from - she married as Ann, the census I've seen her on is Ann, and she died as Ann??

Annette

[ThrelfallYorky]

Annette7, I don't (yet) have an actual real copy of her Birth certificate - I was trying to get reasonably sure that she was the correct Elizabeth Anne before spending. On her wedding, she states her father William is a joiner - in fact, so is the man she marries, so I didn't really query that, as cabinet-making and joinery seem to run a lot in all lines of my family.
She was my Great grandmother, and was referred to as Elizabeth or Ann, and her second daughter was called Elizabeth Ann - I assumed after the mother - although I agree that on the 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911 census she is down as "Ann" - but equally well, on only one of those does her husband William give his own middle name, so I'd not worried about that especially.

I really think that I either send for the 1855 cert from Derby, and hope ( but I don't want to construct a false line based on my error, just because one or two bits almost fit, through eagerness) or pop this one back on the back burner for another few months, in the hope that I can be a bit more certain before adopting this William as father for "my" Anne/Ann" (yes, she used both of those, too!)
Ancestors! Who would have them? Causing such a load of bother. ... still, without them, we wouldn't be here.....
Thanks, again for your help and guidance.

[Annette7]

I have actually viewed a copy of the marriage certificate of William Isherwood and Ann Newbould and her father is stated as a Labourer, not a Joiner.

Annette

[ThrelfallYorky]

Thanks very much for that.  You are quite right, I note now - I'd remebered a Joseph Newbould was a witness (along with a young lady that for some reason I had the idea he'd later married). I think I must've been confused as she later said her father had been a joiner - she must have meant her father-in-law! Sorry for being stupid/ wasting your expertise. When I actually looked - oops. Labourer!
It's helpful, actually, to have kind people like you stopping me from haring off down false trails. Thank you again, Annette7. I'll now get back to trying to find Newboulds in various haystacks.

[Annette7]

Something else to consider is that her 'father' William may have been a fabrication.   She may, in fact, have been born illegitimately, to a Miss Newbould/Newbold who married not long after and may appear on 61/71 census under her mothers new surname.

The variation between Ann/Anne is quite common (sometimes even Hannah too) but I really think you should concentrate purely on this name and not bring Elizabeth into the equation as this name appears in no written records at all.

The birth I found looks a strong candidate - as to the baptism I found perhaps it might be worth contacting Derbyshire Family History Society to see if they could let you know the exact details.

You just seem to be floundering at the moment and checking out the birth and baptism (which may well be the same person) seems the next logical step to me.

Annette

[ThrelfallYorky]

You are quite right, I am floundering. It could be possible that she may have been born to a Miss Newbould - and as the family into which she married were pillars of the Church (and Chapel) certainly by the end 1880s, I suppose I really ought to consider that she may have tried to obscure her origins.
I will indeed try to follow up that birth and baptism, with Derbyshire, they probably are the same person - I just cannot see how to check that, even if her father does prove to be William, I'm not just "making" her fit into our tree, as I know only those few facts about her from family.
Again, thank you for your good advice.