Author Topic: Amelia Bray - help to trace her parents  (Read 3795 times)

Offline prodda

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Amelia Bray - help to trace her parents
« on: Wednesday 21 November 12 12:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi folks - I've reached the end of my knowledge on this and wonder if anyone out there can help me further?

My great grandmother Amelia Bray married my ggf Thomas Barrows in 1882 in Falmouth (registry office). Both gave their ages as 21 (neither of them were!) and Amelia gave her father as John Bray and occupation as 'miner' (which I don't think it was).

Amelia appears to have been born c1864 and appears in census records from 1871 to 1911 but her place of birth is sometimes shown as Truro & other times as Plymouth. In the 1871 census she is residing with grandparents, aunts & uncles in Truro but her father is not present. In the 1861 census John Bray (shoemaker) is living with the family but I can find no trace of him after that. I can only assume at this stage that he's Amelia's father. I've checked the BMD's for the appropriate period but can't seem to find her birth record and abosultely no idea who her mother is. H-e-l-p please  ::)


Offline osprey

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Re: Amelia Bray - help to trace her parents
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 21 November 12 12:30 GMT (UK) »
possible birth reg

Female Bray march qtr 1864 Truro vol 5c pg 217

who might match this baptism

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=2830397

  :-\
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Amelia Bray - help to trace her parents
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 21 November 12 13:38 GMT (UK) »
I'm struggling to find Joseph & Elizabeth Bray apart from that Truro baptism. I can see a Joseph & Elizabeth Hannah/Ann. Not sure if all the events are the same couple

this baptism in Gwennap, but father shows as Hugh on census, so possible mistranscription

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JQ34-H3P

 and these 2 in Linkinhorne

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NTFT-FPR

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NNSV-7DW

That family is in St Cleer in 1871, no Amelia   - RG10/2237 folio 49 pg 46 and this would look to be their marriage, after the birth of the Amelia in Truro, so very unlikely to be her parents

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=727367

 :-\
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline keyboard86

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Re: Amelia Bray - help to trace her parents
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 21 November 12 13:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi having same problem so who is the Amelia in 1871 aged 8 b Plymouth with:-

John Bray 70 b Cornwall
Elizabeth 40 Daughter single b Cornwall
Richard 21 occ Shoemaker b Cornwall
RG10//2284/41/27

And 1881

Richard Bray 32
Elizabeth 48 sister
Amelia 17 Niece b Truro
Residing at 7, High Street Falmouth
Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline prodda

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Re: Amelia Bray - help to trace her parents
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 21 November 12 16:21 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for looking at this for me. The Amelia Bray shown in 1871 and 1881 census is my g/grandmother - she was living with her grandparents in 1871 then moved to Falmouth where she lived with her uncle and aunt (they are also shown in the 1871 census). Census records show her birth place variously as Truro & Plymouth. She obviously lied about her age at her wedding (said she was 21 but was really about 17) - she married a 20 year old soldier stationed at Pendennis Castle. The witnesses at the marriage appear to be friends rather than family so she may have also lied about her fathers details? Her grandfather was a tailor and his sons appear to have been shoemakers so her claim that her father was a miner may also have been untrue?

Offline keyboard86

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Re: Amelia Bray - help to trace her parents
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 21 November 12 17:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi again, ever thought that Amelia could be the illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth?
Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Amelia Bray - help to trace her parents
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 21 November 12 17:53 GMT (UK) »
Looking at that 1871 census,

John Bray 70 b Cornwall
Elizabeth 40 Daughter single b Cornwall
Richard 21 occ Shoemaker b Cornwall

my guess would be that Amelia was the daughter of the unmarried Elizabeth, and named her maternal grandfather as her father when she married. There were several common practices for children of unmarried parents who named fathers when they married -- often combinations of their stepfather's name and occupation, their biological father's name and occupation -- and naming the maternal grandfather was definitely one of them.

It's possible that her father was a John, just not a Bray, and that he was a miner.

In 1871, she is called "daughter", and Ancestry has interpreted that as daughter of the head of household (which is how relationships were supposed to be recorded). It likely means daughter of one of the other household members. In 1881 she was called "niece" of Richard Bray, and his sister Elizabeth Bray is in the household, so this does suggest she was Elizabeth's daughter.

You left out one person from the 1871 census:
Sarah, unmarried, 29, born Chasewater.
She was also in the 1861 household, 18 and unmarried, and is a potential mother as well.

And in 1861, just for example, there is a John Sanders, aged 19, copper miner, practically right next door.


And I see that as I was typing, Keyboard86 also suggested the obvious. ;)
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: Amelia Bray - help to trace her parents
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 21 November 12 18:18 GMT (UK) »
Actually, John Bray had a son Joseph, who was aged 6 in 1851.

Re the Amelia Bray, daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth - father miner, baptised 15 April 1864
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=2830397
... there is possible Joseph Bray + Elizabeth Tonking marriage in 1860 in Falmouth. (Falmouth marriages are missing from the OPC site.) That would be too early to be 'our' Joseph.

And that could indeed be the "female Bray" birth registered. Baptised in the quarter after the birth, and no name assigned when the birth was registered.

Ah. Our Joseph died in 1860 in Chacewater, aged 16, I think.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1548906

So that Amelia isn't a granddaughter of John Bray via his son Joseph, anyway.
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

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Re: Amelia Bray - help to trace her parents
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 21 November 12 20:37 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the info. Hadn't occurred to me that Amelia might be the daughter of Elizabeth. Have looked for Elizabeth in 1861 but can't see her as yet. Have also looked for her post-1881 but haven't been able to find anything else. There are a couple of cemetery records in Falmouth for 1886 for Elizabeth Bray but both appear to have been married.