Author Topic: Cunliff or Dearden and how should I record them?  (Read 2279 times)

Offline KitCarson

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Cunliff or Dearden and how should I record them?
« on: Monday 10 December 12 15:32 GMT (UK) »
On 30 September 1866 Elizabeth Hilton marries Ralph Cunliff (entry on FreeBMD and Lancs OPC)

Ralph Cunliff - (X), 23 Collier Ralph Cunliff - (X), 23 Collier Bachelor of Eccleston Elizabeth Hilton - (X), 18 Spinster of Eccleston Groom's Father: Miles Cunliff, Collier Bride's Father: John Hilton, Engineer Witness: Thomas Hilton; Mary Clary

Elizabeth's mother, Ellen Appleton, married John Hilton in 1841 with Elizabeth (1849) being the fourth of seven known children. Ellen re-marries in 1860 to Richard Johnson and they have 2 known children, David (1858) and Matthew (1863) as shown in the 1871 census. (Ellen also marries a 3rd time to Joseph Taylor)

I couldn't find Elizabeth or Ralph Cunliff (or variations) in any census but when I then looked for David and Matthew Johnson in the 1891 census I found:

1891 Elizabeth and Ralph DEARDEN, 7 Tickle St, Parr with brothers-in-law David (31) and Matthew (28) Johnson.

Working backwards and forwards I then found:
1871 Elizabeth and Ralph DEARDEN, Parr Stocks, St Helens with 2 children John (1868) and Joseph (1870).

1881 Elizabeth and Ralph DEARDEN, 15 Chapel St, Parr with more children.

1901 Elizabeth and Ralph DEARDEN  34 Chancery Lane, Parr.  David and Matthew are still living with them (Matthew now recorded as Nephew!).

1911 Elizabeth and Ralph DEARDEN, 34 Chancery Lane with David and Matthew again.

I can't find a marriage between Ralph Dearden and Elizabeth. Is Ralph Dearden really Cunliff?  Their children shown on the 1871 census both appear to be registered as Cunliffe.  Then, just to confuse things more, the next known child, Edward is registered as Dearden in Prescot Q1 1873 (no Cunliff or variants) but there is a parish record showing: 
Baptisms: 16 Feb 1873 St Michael, Burtonwood, Lancashire, England
Edward Cundliffe - Child of Ralph Cundliffe & Elizabeth
    Born: 18 Dec 1872
    Abode: Parr
    Occupation: Miner
    Baptised by: W. G. Thomas
    Register: Baptisms 1865 - 1876 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 56, Entry 444
    Source: LDS Film 1469048

Also in the 1871 census 2 doors away is Miles Cundliffe (50), wife Esther with various family members. RG10 piece 3866 folio 61 page 36

Does anyone have any ideas about the name change?  Also, how should I record them in my tree?  BTW they are not close family members and I won't be looking to buy certificates.

Thanks in advance.  Kit
Rimmer/Appleton/Ashcroft: St Helens, Lancs // Cul(le)y:St Helens & Little Bolton // Stott: Huyton Quarry & Sutton, Lancs
Carson:Belfast & St Helens // Kelly:Mullingar, West Meath & St Helens // Ronan: Ferns, Wexford & St Helens // Daley:Oranmore & Athenry, Co Galway //
Cunningham: Heworth, Gateshead & Widnes & St Helens, originating Ireland
Edgar: Bellie, Moray // Anderson: Selkirk // Rutherford: Hobkirk, Roxburghshire //
Watson: Moray & Jamaica // Watt: Cairnie

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Offline KitCarson

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Re: Cunliff or Dearden and how should I record them?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 10 December 12 15:50 GMT (UK) »
Just also found child number 3:

Baptisms: 7 Mar 1875 St Michael, Burtonwood, Lancashire, England
Thomas Dierden - Child of Ralph Dierden & Elizabeth
    Born: 21 Jan
    Abode: Parr
    Occupation: Miner
    Baptised by: W. G. Thomas
    Register: Baptisms 1865 - 1876 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 70, Entry 557
    Source: LDS Film 1469048
Rimmer/Appleton/Ashcroft: St Helens, Lancs // Cul(le)y:St Helens & Little Bolton // Stott: Huyton Quarry & Sutton, Lancs
Carson:Belfast & St Helens // Kelly:Mullingar, West Meath & St Helens // Ronan: Ferns, Wexford & St Helens // Daley:Oranmore & Athenry, Co Galway //
Cunningham: Heworth, Gateshead & Widnes & St Helens, originating Ireland
Edgar: Bellie, Moray // Anderson: Selkirk // Rutherford: Hobkirk, Roxburghshire //
Watson: Moray & Jamaica // Watt: Cairnie

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Offline Radcliff

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Re: Cunliff or Dearden and how should I record them?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 10 December 12 15:52 GMT (UK) »
1st September 1861
St Peter Parr
Miles Cundliffe.x.above age miner widower of Parr
Esther Chary,x,above age widow of Parr
grooms father Peter Cundliffe,miner
brides father Sam I French,labourer
witness to marriage,Charles Duckworth,and Thomas Greenhall
Gunning County Down,Kneale Isle of Man,Riddle Tynemouth,Bibby Kendal/Bradford,Colenso Penzance/Barrow-in-Furness,Steele Corney Fell,Chapman Ely,Dawes Alfreton,Blamire Westmoreland and Ulverston
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Offline Radcliff

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Re: Cunliff or Dearden and how should I record them?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 10 December 12 16:03 GMT (UK) »
I am not sure if Myles /Miles was married to Ellen
but I can see two children baptised to them ,then a burial
of
Ellen Cundliffe aged 31 years
abode Parr
23rd July 1849
St PeterParr
Gunning County Down,Kneale Isle of Man,Riddle Tynemouth,Bibby Kendal/Bradford,Colenso Penzance/Barrow-in-Furness,Steele Corney Fell,Chapman Ely,Dawes Alfreton,Blamire Westmoreland and Ulverston
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Offline Radcliff

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Re: Cunliff or Dearden and how should I record them?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 10 December 12 16:10 GMT (UK) »
St Mary /St Helen
Ralph Durden son of Ellen Durden,spinster
abode Parr
1oth July 1842
Gunning County Down,Kneale Isle of Man,Riddle Tynemouth,Bibby Kendal/Bradford,Colenso Penzance/Barrow-in-Furness,Steele Corney Fell,Chapman Ely,Dawes Alfreton,Blamire Westmoreland and Ulverston
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Offline heatherjulie

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Re: Cunliff or Dearden and how should I record them?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 10 December 12 16:11 GMT (UK) »
There is a burial for
Ralph Cunliffe 1st May 1899, St Thomas Eccleston
Aged 62
26 Station Road

Offline Radcliff

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Re: Cunliff or Dearden and how should I record them?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 10 December 12 16:18 GMT (UK) »
12th July 1846
St Wilfrid Farnworth
James Johnson,full age clogger,bachelor of of St Helens
Ellen Dearden,full age spinster of St Helens
grooms father Thomas Johnson,labourer
brides father John Dearden,collier
witness to marriage James Southern and JH Heblethwaite
Gunning County Down,Kneale Isle of Man,Riddle Tynemouth,Bibby Kendal/Bradford,Colenso Penzance/Barrow-in-Furness,Steele Corney Fell,Chapman Ely,Dawes Alfreton,Blamire Westmoreland and Ulverston
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Offline heatherjulie

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Re: Cunliff or Dearden and how should I record them?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 10 December 12 16:40 GMT (UK) »
There is a marriage for a Ralph Dearden and Elizabeth Warburton in 1872 Farnworth with Kearsley on www.lan-opc.org.uk

Heather

Offline KitCarson

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Re: Cunliff or Dearden and how should I record them?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 10 December 12 19:07 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Radcliff and Heatherjulie, lots to take in.  I think I see Peter and Miles in the 1841 census at Parr Stocks.  HO107 piece 516 folio 9/27 page 4.

By 1851 Miles is a widower so the entries that you've found Radcliff, seem to fit.  HO107 piece 2195 folio 433 page 6

Kit
Rimmer/Appleton/Ashcroft: St Helens, Lancs // Cul(le)y:St Helens & Little Bolton // Stott: Huyton Quarry & Sutton, Lancs
Carson:Belfast & St Helens // Kelly:Mullingar, West Meath & St Helens // Ronan: Ferns, Wexford & St Helens // Daley:Oranmore & Athenry, Co Galway //
Cunningham: Heworth, Gateshead & Widnes & St Helens, originating Ireland
Edgar: Bellie, Moray // Anderson: Selkirk // Rutherford: Hobkirk, Roxburghshire //
Watson: Moray & Jamaica // Watt: Cairnie