Author Topic: Ladies in Waiting to Queen Victoria  (Read 8098 times)

Offline Chattykathy

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Ladies in Waiting to Queen Victoria
« on: Wednesday 01 June 05 16:45 BST (UK) »
Hi!  I just found a living link to the MORAN side of my family who told me a family story that our GGG grandmother was a Lady in Waiting to Queen Victoria.  At 1st I totally discounted this story as impossible but they went on to say that this woman had gone against her family (and birth right) and married "low", was disowned and eventually, immigrate to America.

Could an Irish born (probably RC born but maybe not) have position of Lady in Waiting to Queen Victoria?  I have found 2 Ladies in 1881 census b. in Dublin.

Window of time for this to be possible seems narrow, possibly 1838-1848 if she was unmarried at the time.
Mary nee ??? b. in Ire 1820-1822. 
m. Martin Moran b. 1822 IRE   marriage date unknown
1st known children b. 1849-1852  in Lancashire. 
They move to Coventry and have 4 more children and then immi. to US in 1863. 
In 1861 UK Census, Mary is "Washer Woman" and Martin is Hod Laborer.

Found names of about 10 Ladies in Waiting to QV at various times --  most are famous and definately high born.

There is supposedly an "exhaustive" list w/ full details of 32 L-I-W attending QV at her Coronation in 1838  --  found 2x on net - but URL not working!  Argh!

Also found statement that her L-I-W were all "Cousins" and political "appointments" (Whigs) to influence her politics.  True?

However,  if Mary nee ?? Moran had this position,  could she have quite young (teenager?) or before QV became Queen.  Would QV have had contemporary L-I-W's as a child?

Not trying to claim any blue blood here -- so don't anyone get upset about Americans putting on airs.....just trying to track down one more Moran!  I'm thinking she may have been a domestic servant or ladies maid and story got embellished, but would like to find household servants listing. 

Also, I see QV kept house @ Kensington, Balmoral and Isle of Wright --  were there other residences?

Many Thanks for any help/advice/information.
kathy
KING Buckinghamshire  US
FANNING LINDEN Ireland US
BARRET Devonshire
GURLEY Warwickshire
SMITH Buckinghamshire US
MORAN Ireland Lancashire Warwickshire US
BALLARD Worcester US

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Offline DebbieDee

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Re: Ladies in Waiting to Queen Victoria
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 01 June 05 17:17 BST (UK) »
Hi Kathy,

According to this article Victoria visited Ireland before her first official visit in 1849. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_of_the_United_Kingdom#Ireland

Could your Mary Moran have worked where the Queen stayed perhaps? 

Debbie



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Offline Chattykathy

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Re: Ladies in Waiting to Queen Victoria
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 01 June 05 17:53 BST (UK) »
Hi Debbie, 
Thanks for link and suggestion!  I think I may have read this link --  journal entry or article about traveling party of  the Queen  but will recheck to make sure I haven't missed it!
Thanks!
kathy
KING Buckinghamshire  US
FANNING LINDEN Ireland US
BARRET Devonshire
GURLEY Warwickshire
SMITH Buckinghamshire US
MORAN Ireland Lancashire Warwickshire US
BALLARD Worcester US

Offline Little Nell

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Re: Ladies in Waiting to Queen Victoria
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 01 June 05 17:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Kathy

As far as I can remember, Queen Victoria moved out of Kensington Palace, where she had spent her first 18 years with her mother, when she became queen in 1837 and moved to Buckingham Palace as her London residence.  She and Albert acquired Osborne House on the Isle of Wight in 1845 and Balmoral in 1852.  Windsor was one of her favourite residences and she spent most of her widowhood at either Balmoral or Windsor.  (She was known by journalists as the Widow of Windsor.)

To be a Lady in Waiting or other close attendant on the Queen, the ladies definitely had to be high-born.  To a certain extent, they were political appointments and this is what caused Victoria to fall out with Sir Robert Peel when he came to office in 1839.  She refused to dismiss her Whig ladies of the bedchamber.  As a result Lord Melbourne remained in office as Prime Minister.  It is highly unlikely that Victoria had a lady in waiting who was younger than she was until after your Mary married.  I think that Debbie may have hit on the answer - Mary may have worked where the Queen visited and the story was embellished.  Sorry if this disappoints you. :(

Nell
All census information: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Chattykathy

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Re: Ladies in Waiting to Queen Victoria
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 01 June 05 18:18 BST (UK) »
Hi Nell, thanks for you information.   I just went to Debbie's site as well as the offical Buckingham Palace Archive--  some very detailed information about her life/ reign and diaries.
At her coronation, she only mentions the boys who bore her train and the "the Princesses" and names of certain notables.

In one diary entry she mentions the "girls" who helped her dress  --  she herself was about 17 or 18 ....so maybe there were some contemporaries -  but they may have been Ladies Maids not LIW.

I think you are correct and certainly confirm my findings so far ---  I'm only disappointed in not being able to find documentation on "my" Mary Moran.  Hard enough with no maiden name yet!

Thanks!
kathy
KING Buckinghamshire  US
FANNING LINDEN Ireland US
BARRET Devonshire
GURLEY Warwickshire
SMITH Buckinghamshire US
MORAN Ireland Lancashire Warwickshire US
BALLARD Worcester US

Offline Chattykathy

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Re: Ladies in Waiting to Queen Victoria
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 02 June 05 16:14 BST (UK) »
While googling came across the website of the Shaw family who immigrated and settle in the US  which is NO RELATION or CONNECTION to me, BUT, the 1st paragraph caught my eye -- I have paraphrased and shortened slightly...

"Nancy Shaw was born in England, March 4, 1805.  She was a first cousin to Queen Victoria and her 'Lady in Waiting".  (Ladies in Waiting were and are are chosen from among the cousins.)  She was the youngest of 15 children.  Her father was Henry Shaw, a member of the House of Lords and also a wealthy farmer from Broad Bottom, England.........
.........Later, she fell in love with her coachman, also named "Henry Shaw."  He, while being either a first or second cousin of hers did not belong to the Royal Family and was a "commoner."  For this reason she was refused to marry him.  For this reason they ran away and were married......I believe in.....England.  They then fled to America."

SO,  this may be a family legend as well  but my hunt continues for a "Lord Hunt" who may have had a daughter, Mary,  that followed Nancy Shaw's lead (or vice versa) and married a poor laborer named Martin Moran.......

Huge boulders of salt here, but worth a look.  Now instead of a List of Ladies....I need a list of MP's and Gentlemen of wealth/influence.

kathy



KING Buckinghamshire  US
FANNING LINDEN Ireland US
BARRET Devonshire
GURLEY Warwickshire
SMITH Buckinghamshire US
MORAN Ireland Lancashire Warwickshire US
BALLARD Worcester US

Offline Little Nell

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Re: Ladies in Waiting to Queen Victoria
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 02 June 05 21:11 BST (UK) »
Sackload of salt, Kathy if not a whole boat load.  To be a first cousin, she would either be of German origin (Victoria's mother was a minor German princes) or a child of one of George III's offspring.  They are all quite well documented.  George III had a huge number of children:
George IV (a bit of a ladies man but only one legitimate child, d 1817)
Frederick Duke of York married but no children
William IV no surviving legitimate issue, 10 children by his mistress Mrs Jordan
Charlotte m Frederick King of Wurttemburg no children
Edward Duke of Kent (Victoria's father) - only Victoria
Augusta - never married
Elizabeth - m Frederick Langrave of Hesse-Homburg no children
Ernest Duke of Cumberland - became King of Hanover
Augustus Duke of Sussex married twice - 2 children from his 1st marriage (contravened Royal Marriage Act)which was annulled, no children from his second
Adolphus Duke of Cambridge - one son and two daughters, grandfather of Queen Mary wife of George V
Mary - m her 1st cousin once removed William of Gloucester - no children
Sophia - never married
Octavius - died v young
Alfred - died v young
Amelia - m ? Charles Fitzroy - she certainly fell in love with him but was forbidden to marry.

No sign of a Shaw or Moran anywhere  :(

Nell
All census information: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Chattykathy

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Re: Ladies in Waiting to Queen Victoria
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 02 June 05 23:02 BST (UK) »
Hi Nell --  you sure have your history down!  I searched QV's genealogy on line today for hours!  and I'm not coming up with anything, anywhere even remotely feasible either.  All blood links to her are definately high born or royality of all levels.  Have done some searching but not very well for Landed Gentry who may have had some political tie which granted them favors but not having any success.  Out of curiosity, will search for the Henry Shaw later...to see if any merit to the mention of his name.

I think the Shaw's are under the same illusions as the Morans.  Wonder why this myth so popular?  QV was very sympathetic to Ireland so they viewed her with paticular benevolence, perhaps?

Thanks for your post --  I might be able to pass a test on her life now!

P.S. I omitted the part that QV given her (Miss Shaw) jewels which financed her runaway trip to America!  Would have put you over the top!

kathy
KING Buckinghamshire  US
FANNING LINDEN Ireland US
BARRET Devonshire
GURLEY Warwickshire
SMITH Buckinghamshire US
MORAN Ireland Lancashire Warwickshire US
BALLARD Worcester US

Offline Ronmw

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Re: Ladies in Waiting to Queen Victoria
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 29 July 06 00:41 BST (UK) »
Have not noticed anyone mentioning this site, it may be of use

http://www.mypage.uniserve.com/~canyon/queen_victoria.htm