John Short and Caroline Emma Hay, Dronfield

[Yasmina4]

John Short of Dronfield and formerly of Madras India married Caroline Emma Hay.

I have been helped to follow their decendents in Other Countries section of roots chat.http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,627418.msg4771029.html#msg4771029

His son Lawrence was born in Dronfield in 1769.

I wonder if anyone has access to information on this John Short.  Parentage,his and parent;s occupation. Where he was born  what took him to India and what he was doing there. when he married.

I am totally stuck.

Thank you for looking
Sandra

[JaneyCanuck]

I just wanted to avert readers to the info about Laurence William Holwell Short 1833 on another thread here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,629766.0.html

[Yasmina4]

OK  Have got it right now.

John Short married Anne Slate in Dronfield 17.February 1768.  His residence was listed as Dronfield, Dronfield.  He was also listed as formerly of Madras.

John Short's parents were John Short and Caroline Emma Hay.  I Cannot find them at all.

I have combed India and Derby and cannot find a birth for John Short that fits. 

The had a son named Laurence(Lawrence) in 1769 and he eventually became Rector of Ashover .  He retired to Yorkshire so there does not seem to be a strong family connection with Derbyshire there.

I am happy with all I have found re the descendants of the couple so no need for information there.

I would like births and deaths of the two John Shorts and their wives if possible please.

Hopefully? Sandra

[Yasmina4]

A friend suggested that perhaps my John Shorts were also clergymen.

I think I may have found the grandfather John Short , ordained 1725 , 30th May died ,Dadington,Oxfordshire 1753.  If this is my man he should have had Caroline Emma Hay as a wife.

He studied and achieved his BA in New Inn Hall Oxford.

Is anyone able to tie this man in with my family please.

No notes found on Rector Lawrence's father and his wife Ann Slate though.

sandra

[JaneyCanuck]

I've messed around in this family with you (some by PM) more than most, and I know I get lost.

You said earlier:

John Short of Dronfield and formerly of Madras India married Caroline Emma Hay.
His son Lawrence was born in Dronfield in 1769.

Now you have added:

I think I may have found the grandfather John Short, ordained 1725 , 30th May died Oxfordshire 1753.
If this is my man he should have had Caroline Emma Hay as a wife.

Well ... not if he died in 1753 (and was likely born by not much after 1700).

Your man who had Caroline Emma Hay as a wife also had a son born in 1769 ... 16 years after this man died.

Do you mean that the one who died in 1753 could be the grandfather of the one born in 1769?

This one who died in 1753 might have had Caroline Emma Hay as a daughter-in-law (had he lived long enough to witness the marriage), but presumably not as a wife!

Maybe if you laid out a list of the known people and their dates it would help.


edit edit edit

It seems you mistook yourself when you said

John Short of Dronfield and formerly of Madras India married Caroline Emma Hay.
His son Lawrence was born in Dronfield in 1769.

because you also said

John Short married Anne Slate in Dronfield 17.February 1768.  His residence was listed as Dronfield, Dronfield.  He was also listed as formerly of Madras.
John Short's parents were John Short and Caroline Emma Hay.

So the John Short who had the son in 1769 wasn't the one who married Caroline Emma Hay, he was the son of Caroline Emma Hay.

So the question was whether the ordained John Short who died in 1753 could have been the husband of Caroline Emma Hay / father of the John Short who married Anne Slate and had a son in 1769.

[JaneyCanuck]

Clergy of the Church of England database
http://ccedb.cch.kcl.ac.uk/jsp/search/index.jsp

For info, this is the person you are referring to (I really like to see sources, myself):

1725-1753
http://ccedb.cch.kcl.ac.uk/jsp/persons/DisplayPerson.jsp?PersonID=37612

but I don't see any way of connecting him with your Shorts.

There are two other John Shorts in the database:

1672-1689
http://ccedb.cch.kcl.ac.uk/jsp/persons/DisplayPerson.jsp?PersonID=51566

1793-1815
http://ccedb.cch.kcl.ac.uk/jsp/persons/DisplayPerson.jsp?PersonID=19802

and this is Laurence Short:

1791-1835
http://ccedb.cch.kcl.ac.uk/jsp/persons/DisplayPerson.jsp?PersonID=19574

There are a couple of dozen other clergy Shorts in the database as well.

[Yasmina4]

Mia culpa.

As I understand it there were two John Shorts father and son.  The John Short who married Ann Slate was the father of  the Rector Lawrence. He married in 1768 and Lawrence was born 1769.
The older John Short, grandfather of the Rector Lawrence married Caroline Emma Hay.

I hope to find where the parents and grandparents of the Rector Lawrence came from and who they were.

When I went on the Clergy website I found Caroline's John....possibly.  The one who died in 1753.  No one appeared to fit Ann's John Short.  But that John Short was supposedly from Madras.  Whether he was clergy in India or East India Company I do not know have been thru the FIBIS database.  I have found a customs clearing house that was run by Shorts in India and perhaps that may be this family.

Thank you for your help.

Sandra

[Yasmina4]

After much searching I have found two contenders for the Ann Slate , who married John Short

The first was born Over, Cheshire.  Mother Elizabeth Slate. Christened 10 December 1746.

The second was born Stockport, Cheshire. Mother Mary and father Francis Slate.  Christened 29 November 1747.

I have not found their burials.

Is there any way to try to find that one of these  is "my" Ann Slate, please.

Sandra

[Yasmina4]

A family connection in Australia tells me that Caroline Emma Hay was the daughter of an Earl of Erroll/

Have looked the family up and they appear to be Scottish. But this new relative says the family seat was in Yorkshire.
 
How  do I follow this through please.  Sandra