Author Topic: SMEDLEY - Victoria  (Read 6641 times)

Offline Smeddles

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Re: SMEDLEY - Victoria
« Reply #9 on: Friday 11 January 13 00:16 GMT (UK) »
Hello Sue and Cando, thank you both for your responses. Wow!

I am very grateful for the speed and depth of your feedback.

Firstly Sue, thanks for drawing my attention to Patrick's war records. I hadn't thought to look there. It helps on a couple of counts.
I only became aware of Patrick's existence from the St Mary's Colac baptism records this week. In digging, Ancestry.com threw up some court records for the gaoling of one Patrick Smedley in Bathurst NSW on multiple counts of arson in the 1920s and still further information revealed that this Patrick had subsequently been committed to a mental asylum at Ryde during the 1920s/30s. The last reference is a death record of a Patrick Smedley dying at Parramatta in 1940.

Up to now I had not delved further because there was nothing to link a Bathurst resident to Colac. however Colac and Camperdown aren't far apart and while the birthdates are not exact, the birth year is.

He clearly was a troubled fellow, possibly in no small part due to a troubled childhood, and while I'll need to dig a little deeper, he sounds like a reasonable match. In any event, he is the only Patrick Smedley for whom I've found any information.

Turning to the article in the Colac Herald - how did you find it - I've been searching every variation of Emma Rigby/Wigby/Smedley and had not found that piece. The prospect that Michael and Patrick were made State Wards did pop up on Ancestry.com and I've been waiting for a reply from a helpful woman at PROV to confirm a link.

Cando, with respect to your info; I think I need a tutorial in getting information out of the BDM Historical Search. I have not been able to find a record of Michael or Patrick's birth, nor for that matter Emma's or her marriage.

The St Mary's Colac baptism records show Michael's birth date as 31/07/1883 and Patrick as 31/11/1881 (yeah, that was how it was recorded, so either 30/11 or 01/12 perhaps) I have not been aware of a namesake until now. The Michael Medley date seems all wrong, but the parents match.

The plot thickens further however - was Patrick and Michaels' father's name William? I have a copy of St Patrick's Ballarat marriage record for Michael and Isabella (23/01/1906) and it lists Michael's parents as being Emma and husband George Allan. This was where my father always got stuck in searching up Michael's history, for his name was Alan George Smedley - naturally, he assumed the William referenced in the Colac records was incorrect somehow.

I've not yet been successful in tracing George Allan - I haven't found a birth record, or evidence of assisted or unassisted passage. There was a George who would make a rough fit based on age that was "transported" to Van Diemens Land (Nottingham Quarter Sessions) but I'm drawing a bit of a long bow that he may travelled to Melbourne when freed and somehow hooked up with Emma. Based on the childrens ages, he would have been in his 30s when they were born.

Now I wonder whether Michael and Patrick were perhaps fathered by William O'Bryan?

The other thing which doesn't quite fit, is that Emma, according to my father, was understood to have been related to WC Rigby who emigrated to Australia in the 1850's who after a stint in the Ballarat goldfields, went on to establish Rigby Publishing Limited in Adelaide. It was one of Australia's largest publishing houses from the 1880's until the 1980s when it was sold. Rigbys were also noted for their philanthropy - maybe Emma was a blacksheep, I don't know, but if the link was there, it is strange that they seemingly abandoned her.

Oh boy, its old adage - don't ask questions unless you want to know the answers. I've got a bit more digging to do! Is John born 1889 related - what happened to him? The list is starting to build.

Thanks again. If you have any advice on shortcuts or ways through Victorian bureaucracy to help me identify Emma's and George/William's origins, I'd be grateful. Obviously, if you draw any other links for me, please let me know.

Offline Smeddles

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Re: SMEDLEY - Victoria
« Reply #10 on: Friday 11 January 13 00:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sue,

I just saw your follow up on Patrick's death. Yeah, I was thinking that maybe it wasn't him because of the father's name - but I can link his burial to the Ryde Mental Asylum, it may help. He sounds like a pretty troubled sort of guy and he seems to have been in and out of gaol/asylums for most of his adult life.

It now begs the question, did Michael know, or had they lost touch?

Thanks,
John

Offline sparrett

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Re: SMEDLEY - Victoria
« Reply #11 on: Friday 11 January 13 01:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sue,

I just saw your follow up on Patrick's death. Yeah, I was thinking that maybe it wasn't him because of the father's name - but I can link his burial to the Ryde Mental Asylum, it may help. He sounds like a pretty troubled sort of guy and he seems to have been in and out of gaol/asylums for most of his adult life.

It now begs the question, did Michael know, or had they lost touch?

Thanks,
John

A transcription of this death may help confirm the man's identity, but will obviously not give any more on his parents' names.

Are you familiar with the process of  ordering transcriptions?

Sue

ADDING
The army records show clearly PATRICK was not robust in body or mind. Small in stature and weight and congenitally mentally deficient.
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Offline Smeddles

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Re: SMEDLEY - Victoria
« Reply #12 on: Friday 11 January 13 03:03 GMT (UK) »
Sue,

Thanks - I'm not sure of the transcript process in NSW, but for the time being am probably more focussed on my grandfather Michael. From Cando's input, I've obtained the Birth Record for Michael dated 3/01/1889 and the marriage date contained for William & Emma 05/10/1880 works. It also shows Patrick and "Alfred" as existing "issue".

Whether Alfred Michael inverted his names I don't know, nor do I know where George Allan fits in as a father. The State Ward issue may be a key - George Allan may have been a foster father - just don't know.

The Michael who married Isabel (Isabella) could not have been the latter as he would have been 12 years younger.

Thanks for the ongoing help. Hope my commentary is of interest.

rgds
John

Offline sparrett

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Re: SMEDLEY - Victoria
« Reply #13 on: Friday 11 January 13 03:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi John,
I wonder, would you take the time to type up the entire contents of the birth  certificate you have downloaded.

Sometimes only small hints can open pathways.  :)

Sue

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Offline cando

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Re: SMEDLEY - Victoria
« Reply #14 on: Friday 11 January 13 03:22 GMT (UK) »

Quote
Cando, with respect to your info; I think I need a tutorial in getting information out of the BDM Historical Search. I have not been able to find a record of Michael or Patrick's birth, nor for that matter Emma's or her marriage.

I do not use the online search.  Many of us have our own resources.

If there was no marriage and if the children were illegitimate and Emma was in troubled circumstances, she obviously didn't register their births.  Many Roman Catholics considered the baptism sufficient 'registration' and ignored the civil registration. 

I agree with Sue comments re the 1889 birth certificate details. 

What were Wm and Emma's ages? 
Where were they born? 
Where were they married?
What was the place of birth?
What are the ages of Patrick and Alfred?....I would suggest this is Michael Alfred.
Who registered the birth?

Your reference to William Charles RIGBY living at Ballarat.  None of the births to Wm and Harriet CAPLE were at Ballarat.  Have your taken your information from his obituary in various newspapers of the day?    You would have to see the death certificates to find the places of death.

I very much doubt he was in Ballarat at all.  Employed by his ?father in law.  His wife was still in Melbourne in 1860.  If you think Emma is his dau I would suggest you purchase the 1858 birth certificate for Mary as all previous issue of the marriage would be listed.

1856 Victorian Electoral Roll
RIGBY William Charles  29 Collins Street.  Shopman 
Nature of Qualification  Salary
Description or particulars of Qualification   £100  James CAPLE, Collins Street.


Birth – with mother’s surname error…see death below
RIGBY Harry
Father William Charles  Mother Harriet WRIGHT
At Melbourne  1856  Reg#3851

Death
RIGBY Harry
Father William Charles Mother Harriet CAPLE
9 months  Born Melbourne  1857  Reg#433

Birth
RIGBY Mary
Father William Charles  Mother Harriet CAPLE
At Melbourne  1858  Reg#10203

Death….birth not registered
RIGBY Charles
Father William Charles  Mother Harriet CAPLE
1860   8 days  Born St Kilda  Reg#12252

Birth in South Australia
RIGBY Ada Harriet
26 May 1863
Father William Charles RIGBY  Mother Ada Harriet CAPLE
At Adelaide      Ade27/286

Death
RIGBY Ada Harriet
5 Mar 1865  21 months  Status Child  Relative William Charles RIGBY [Father]
Residence Adelaide  Death  Adelaide  Ade 18/109

Births
RIGBY Ada
30 Aug  1866
Father William Charles RIGBY  Mother Harriet CAPEL
At Adelaide    Ade 33/630

RIGBY Lilian
26 Mar: 1871
Father William Charles RIGBY   Mother Harriet CAPLE
At Adelaide  Ade 93/17

A rather 'glowing' obituary
http://shrinkalink.com/60941
The deceased has left three daughters— Mrs. Mary Ringwood of Barnard street, North Adelaide; Mrs. Lillian Meth, and Miss Ada Rigby, of East Adelaide—and six grandchildren. His wife died many years ago.

Cheers  ;D
Cando
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Offline sparrett

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Re: SMEDLEY - Victoria
« Reply #15 on: Friday 11 January 13 03:41 GMT (UK) »
I have a copy of St Patrick's Ballarat marriage record for Michael and Isabella (23/01/1906) and it lists Michael's parents as being Emma and husband George Allan. This was where my father always got stuck in searching up Michael's history, for his name was Alan George Smedley - naturally, he assumed the William referenced in the Colac records was incorrect somehow.



Do you mean here that MICHAEL’s father is listed as-
First name GEORGE surname ALLAN
Or do you mean he is listed as
First name GEORGE second name ALLAN Surname SMEDLEY.

It is not clear to me.

EDIT
ALSO "EMMA" what maiden name doyou mean?

Sue
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Offline sparrett

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Re: SMEDLEY - Victoria
« Reply #16 on: Friday 11 January 13 03:51 GMT (UK) »
If the SURNAME was ALLAN, could this be a relevant couple?


ALLAN  George
HOLMES Emma
His Birth Place CRESWICK
Year 1885
Reg Number 6424

Sue


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Offline cando

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Re: SMEDLEY - Victoria
« Reply #17 on: Friday 11 January 13 03:56 GMT (UK) »
Sorry for jumping all over the place with my posts....but I can't see a connection for Emma RIGBY with W C RIGBY at this stage.

Interesting that there is a headstone for Harriet RIGBY which mentions Harry and Charles who died in Victoria and Ada who died in SA.  Wm C is not buried at the same location as his wife and chn at West Terrace.
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/%7Edeadsearch/cemetery_index.htm
RIGBY Harriet 1872; Harry 1857, Charles 1860 and Ada 1865

John information on certificates is not always accurate and as there are no birth registrations apart from the 1889 birth, I think you need to accept the parish records as being somewhere near the mark....although they are simply the information given to the parish priest by Emma and ?Wm....and I've seen parish records with obviously incorrect dates.  One of my ancestors was baptised two years before his was born....an obvious error with the year when looking at the other baptisms on the same page of the register.

We await further details ;D

Cheers  ;D
Cando
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