Author Topic: Thomas George BEILBY of Charleville QLD  (Read 9245 times)

Offline rtbrtb

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Re: Thomas George BEILBY of Charleville QLD
« Reply #27 on: Monday 12 August 13 20:36 BST (UK) »
And a last thought, for sure:

Anyone with a knowledge of country towns in the 1950's would realize that the 'engagement' joke had a certain malice, possibly unintended.  I do not know.  However, an engagement announced in April of a marriage to take place one month later meant only one thing.  The shotgun.

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Offline fastfusion

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Re: Thomas George BEILBY of Charleville QLD
« Reply #28 on: Monday 12 August 13 22:29 BST (UK) »
Well I have read the responses that the newcomer has posted on this forum regarding the research.  I can assure the writer of these posts that has responded that your tone of reply is somewhat of a shock as there seems to be an overtone which disputes the actual records.  I can only base the profiling on the actual records. If folk have not told the truth in creating those records then that was their affair. To publicly dispute what is clearly written in the research material is your business , however, I think that given your responses , then maybe the family wrote the records to get some sense of dignity or maintain a pride within the Beilby family name as country areas often depend of reputation. If you think that the dirty washing should be told then by all means do so but when folk come onto this worldwide forum and ask for research to be done , it is given in good faith. I would suggest that personal messages be used by you to the persons who asked for this research to be done.  I am offended that although the truth may appear to be different in life as to the records I found and it is saying that my research was wrong.

You have made a decision for me that in future when folk who are tracing their family trees can blimming well do it themselves and after 30 years of finding folks families whatever their creed you have taken the last straw towards insults. Let me assure you I am not happy with your posts.

MARTIN SHERGOLD

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Offline rtbrtb

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Re: Thomas George BEILBY of Charleville QLD
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 13 August 13 00:20 BST (UK) »
My apologies.  I had no idea I'd tread on anyone's toes and, having done so, let me say 'sorry' most sincerely.  I was much struck by the effort that has gone into tracking down what must have seemed elusive and I was most impressed by what had been discovered from 'first principles' so to speak.  Had I not been impressed and not seen the sincere effort to discover the truth that lies behind these records, I'd not have offered any contribution at all.  But since I can tell the answers to all the questions that have been raised and explain some items that seemed to cause confusion, I offered the truth of the matter in good faith.  Some guesses as to what research findings tell are, as one searches for final answers, necessary to be made and sometimes those guesses will, as progress is made, prove to be inaccurate - but that is not to attribute blame or fault on those who are forced to 'postulate'.  What I have done is to offer speedy and, be assured, accurate answers to questions that have proved elusive to date - and I thought those who have struggled with these questions might have been appreciative.  As to airing dirty linen or to be seen to be disrespectful in questioning some records, I must confess to some puzzlement by the claim.  Facts are facts and I make no judgement about them - and where what are thought to be genuine 'records' turn out to no more than local jokes, no blame can be attributed to those who, by necessity, mistake them for the genuine article.  Be assured that what I have written is totally accurate and if my contribution assists in providing the answers to matters that have puzzled people in this thread for some time, then I'm happy to have helped.  It's probably a good basic truth in research to assert that it's worth maintaining some emotional distance from one's cold interpretations of records.  After all, it would be a trifle silly to speculate about the fate of Leichhardt and then to be offended if, suddenly Leichhardt turned up and put an end to the need for speculation and corrected any confusion that might have occurred.  The horse's mouth is usually to be relied on.  This is not to say that the search for Thomas George Beilby is an identical situation but, let me assure you, my contribution comes as close to that situation as you're going to find.

Offline IrishOrigins

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Re: Thomas George BEILBY of Charleville QLD
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 13 August 13 00:41 BST (UK) »
Has anyone thought to look for the occupants of "The Cottage" at the relevant time?  Electoral rolls or something similar?
Byrnes, Wexford.
O'Brien, Hannigan, Waterford & Tipperary

Offline rtbrtb

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Re: Thomas George BEILBY of Charleville QLD
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 13 August 13 01:17 BST (UK) »
Be assured there was no 'The Cottage' in Galatea Street and no Beilby lived in that street.  In 1952, there were only two T. Beilbys in Charleville.  One lived in King Street, the other, lived in Parry Street.  There was only one Beilby family in town, all members having derived from the original Beilby settler, John Beilby.  I do admire the energy and dedication that has gone into tracking down this elusive Thomas George Beilby and his various relatives - but sometimes the records can confuse, especially where identical names are involved over two generations or when a particular record turns out to have been no more than an April Fool's joke.  The name, Thomas George Beilby, is confusing in Charleville.  By about 1960 there were three members of the extended Beilby family in the town, each of whom bore that name.  They covered three generations and two households.  As for Norah, allegedly of 'The Cottage', as I continued to cast my memory back, I'm pretty sure she had no middle name - nor did her sister, Maryrose.  To attribute to her the middle name of 'Josephine' would have seemed to local townspeople and to Norah herself, insofar as she might have enjoyed the joke, somewhat amusing.  'Josephine' in that town at that time would have been seen as the sort of name one would find in Music Hall burlesque.  There was an old 'tramp' lady in the town named "Jo" - and that was the extent of the name's use.  "Jo" had a horse and cart and collected pigs' slops from cafes and hotels.  She also had a shotgun that she wasn't backward in brandishing at those who might attempt to shoot wild ducks from her billabong.  The Beilby family knew it well.  I had long forgotten the 'engagement' notice of 1952.  The only detail I do vaguely recall is Norah's mentioning to me some amusement or otherwise about 'The Cottage', a name that no self-respecting western Queensland pioneer would have dreamed of using - and certainly not Thomas George Beilby.  He may have named his residence, say, "The Gunyah" - but not 'The Cottage'.  As it happened, his sole Charleville residence in Parry Street had no name.  As for the perpetrator of the hoax, I have no idea who it might have been.  The whole thing cannot have been taken all that seriously otherwise there'd have been some family discussion, some family outrage perhaps.  And given that I was in the alleged fiancÚ's class at the time, I think I'd have known if Ian Warren had been 'courting' my cousin.  Further, had he been engaged to her, I feel sure he'd have sought my goodwill rather more readily than he did.

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Re: Thomas George BEILBY of Charleville QLD
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 13 August 13 03:13 BST (UK) »
A little more research to clarify matters.

The "Charleville Times" containing the Warren - Beilby engagement notice is headed, Thursday, 3rd April, 1952.

Perhaps it was the Editor's idea of an April Fool's joke.

The paper was issued weekly on Thursdays.  The issue dated 3rd April, 1952 was actually issued on Thursday, 1st April, 1952 - as a reference to the 1952 calendar will indicate.

Offline IrishOrigins

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Re: Thomas George BEILBY of Charleville QLD
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 13 August 13 03:41 BST (UK) »
My grandmother's middle name was Josephine, in the town at the time, and there was no suggestion of burlesque or music hall involved.  It was quite a common name.

I was not thinking of other Beilby families in Charleville, just wondering about who actually was living in "the cottage".  Don't forget, some houses had names (I know of a couple) attached near the front door that were not necessarily part of the postal address but which may have been used for other reasons. 

I was also in Charleville at the time and good friends with Maryrose.  At no time do I remember mention of a practical joke involving Norah, nor do I remember anyone other than Ron Wilkinson being associated with her.

If a practical joke had been the case, surely someone (including my parents) would have given voice to "righteous indignation"?

Not that it matters, now, really.  All water under the bridge and it doesn't actually change anything at all, does it?

Bit of a puzzle really.
Byrnes, Wexford.
O'Brien, Hannigan, Waterford & Tipperary

Offline Nellie_Bligh

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Re: Thomas George BEILBY of Charleville QLD
« Reply #34 on: Friday 19 September 14 14:34 BST (UK) »
Hi,
I am the granddaughter of John Beilby (known as Jack) listed in the 4th post. My grandfather lived in King Street, Charleville and was a shearer, born 1911 to 1994.

His father was James Beilby who married Emily Robertson and had 12 children - my grandfather being one of them. Thomas George was one of my grandfathers brothers born in 1915.

James Beilby's father was John Beilby who married Hannah Johnson - his grave is one of the, if not, the tallest one remaining in the cemetery. They had six children - Bill (Jack), Elizabeth, Laura, Mary, Rebecca and Thomas.  The grave of Thomas George in the cemetery is my grandfather's uncle, born 1892 to 1973.

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Re: Thomas George BEILBY of Charleville QLD
« Reply #35 on: Friday 19 September 14 15:06 BST (UK) »
A couple of corrections that may help.

Emily Beatrice Robinson

Thomas George d. 1963

John/Hannah - 7 children.  I think you mean 'six other children".