Helen or Ellen BURKE/WELCH/MORLEY/DELANEY/CHANDLER/HOLMES !!! born c1835

[BonnieDownUnder]

Hello Neil ...
You seem to be navigating the site MUSS gave far better than me.  I keep on going around in circles with the surnames.
Have been seaching for Ellen/Helen for many years and it was only last year that I finally tracked down her death on 06 May 1893.  Actually it was sheer fluke that I found it, it all came about with the godmother's name, she was one of Helen/Ellen's daughters, on my father's baptismal certificate and that lead me to another clue, then another and bingo!
 
thank you thank you so much ... I await with anticipation for your next message.  Bonnie
PS Hope the power stays on at your home; we here are having some nice soaking rain and I swear you can see the grass turning from brown to green!

[lyn22]

Hello Bonnie sorry for jumping to conclusions that it was your tree  Take Care Lynette

[muss]

Hi

Do you have the BCs of the siblings of Georgina ?.  Thinking out loud, what is the address given as place of birth ( Newcastle or  Suburb) and who was the witness at the births ?
I spent a very long time searching for part of my family ( before cd's and computers) in Newcastle Library only to find they lived in Bolton st Newcastle ( very close to the library) I put the family tree together in 1 day  thanks to the reels of the BDMs of Christchurch  Cof E.  Was Helen/Ellen Cof E ?
My GGGrandmother had named the fathers of her children when they were baptised (some she even stated where the  fathers lived)

Muss

[BonnieDownUnder]

Hi Muss. Thanks your email.  As to the children born in Newcastle:
Emma Chandler (illegitimate) 24 Mar 1864 at Perkins Street, Newcastle.  The informant (mother) Helen Chandler, Perkins Street, aged 27 years, born Muswellbrook.  Nurse and/or Witness, M. Whiteman.  Emma died at Newcastle in 1868 but I don't have her death certificate

Emily Chandler (illegitimate) 19 Jan 1869.  Address just stated at Newcastle. The Informant (mother) Helen Chandler, aged 31, and her birth place Muswellbrook.  Nurse and/or witness, E. Teasdale

James Holmes born and died 1871 Newcastle however both registrations shows father's name as James Holmes.

Georgina Jane b1858 and Matilda Charlotte 1860 both registered at Singleton.  On Georgina's birth certificate it shows Helen Chandler, Maiden name Burke aged 20 years born Scone. On Matilda's bc, mother name shown as Helen Chandler (no mention of Burke) aged 24 years born at Muswellbrook.

George Holmes 1874 and Elizabeth Helen Holmes 1876 both born Gulgong.

Don't know what religion Helen/Ellen was; when she finally married James Holmes in 1878 it was at the Congregational Church in Gulgong.  When she died in 1893, no Minister nor Religion shown on her death certificate.

As James Holmes not a connection direct to me, I didn't bother buying the birth and/or death certificate/s for James jnr. 1871 ... what's your thoughts, do you think I should?
Thanks Bonnie

[muss]

Hi
 A little more information 
Newcastle West Presbyterian Cemetery  ( Cemetery now removed)
Emma Chandler 08/04/1868  age 3
James Holmes 25 /06/1871  age 4 months Son of James Holmes and HELEN WELSH

Muss

[BonnieDownUnder]

Hi Muss, thanks for that information, terrific.  What do you think, should buy death certificates of both of these children to see if there is any further information re parents?
Could I ask another favour, would it pushing a request for you to have a look to see if there are any more burials in the surname of Chandler and Holmes in Newcastle between 1860 and around 1874.
Bonnie

[muss]

Hi

The other Holmes in Newcastle West in that time was Hannah age 1 06/01/1866 daughter of
Thomas Holmes and Hannah Payne.
None under the name of Chandler.  the other cemeteries may be Honeysuckle, Christ Church, North Waratah ( I think was callled Folly Cemetery)  Sandgate opened around the early 1880's.
The DCs may help . Do you know where James Holmes snr was born ?

Muss

[BonnieDownUnder]

Hi Muss, Sorry I should have mentioned, before asking the previous favour, that I checked the NSW BDM's and the only deaths that come up Chandler and/or Holmes were the two burials you had found but as a thought, we know that the NSW BDM is not a complete listing.

James Holmes senior, died 12 Oct 1907, aged 72 years was shown to have been born in Newcastle, NSW and married there aged 36 years to Ellen Chandler however we know that he and Helen/Ellen actually married in Gulgong 09 Apr 1878 therefore if his age at death is correct, would have been 43 years of age at time of their nuptials.  He is buried in the CofE section of Gulgong cemetery, an unmarked grave.

Interestingly, when George Holmes was born 1874 at Gulgong, his father is shown to be 37 years of age, a Miner, born England. On Elizabeth Helen, b1876 Gulgong, father is 41 years of age, a Carpenter, born England.  On her birth certificate, Helen maiden name shown as Welch on George's, maiden name Chandler.

Talk about confusing ... going around and around in circles 
Regards Bonnie

[muss]

Hi
 On the BDMs  deaths Emma's father is listed as JOHN.
There is a marriage in 1856 Scone of a John Chandler and Alice White .  I have not found any children born to them.
I wonder if Helen/ Ellen lived with him.

Muss