Author Topic: Need some expert help in solving a family tree mystery - WILLIAMS, Aberllynfi  (Read 5477 times)

Offline Rob61e

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Hi everyone ,

I'm in the process of doing may family tree and I've come to a stand still , I'm Tracing the Williams family of aberllynfi /pontithel . I have loads of info on the family but I'm struggling to trace a John Williams . Born in 1830 in aberllynfi Brecon  to parents James and Hannah . I have him on the 1861 census living in pontithel .... He is a maltster  (master) plus land agent and employs a number of people . He,s married to Hannah b Williams nee Lewis , but in 1871 census I find Hannah is know a widow and is living in bronllys with her daughters . In the census she is an annuitant , which I believe is someone being paid for land etc .ive tried tracing John for a number of months know but can't find anything , no probate or anything ...... I've been to aberllynfi (three cocks ) but can even find a gravestone or anything in the area .......

Really need some help to move on with this ,

Thanks for your time

Kind regards


Rob

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Really need some expert help in solving a family tree mystery
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 31 January 13 19:23 GMT (UK) »

I'm in the process of doing may family tree and I've come to a stand still
I'm Tracing the Williams family of aberllynfi /pontithel .
I'm struggling to trace a John Williams . Born in 1830 in aberllynfi Brecon  to parents James and Hannah .
I have him on the 1861 census living in pontithel .... He is a maltster  (master) plus land agent


Hello & welcome to rootschat  :)

Just want to confirm this is the 1861 census you refer too

1861 RG9; Piece: 4223; Folio: 5; Page: 4
John Williams 30 Maltster Brewer & Farmer of 50 acres employing 8 men
Hannah B 27
Bridget E 6
Rosa Jane 5
Lucy May 1

this looks to be John with his widowed mother Hannah

1851 HO107; Piece: 2491; Folio: 83; Page: 1
Hannah Williams Head Wid 60 Agents Widow
John son 21 Aberllunvey Agent & farmer 45 acre employing 4 labourere
Mary Morgan  dau Mar 23 Clerygman wife
 
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Really need some expert help in solving a family tree mystery
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 31 January 13 19:29 GMT (UK) »
Here they are on 1841 census

1841 HO107 P1370; Book: 6; Civil Parish: Aber llunvey  Breconshire E D:1; F5; Page: 4;
Pontithell
James Williams 70 Land Agent
Hanah 40
John 11
only John born in this county
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Offline Rob61e

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Re: Really need some expert help in solving a family tree mystery
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 31 January 13 19:47 GMT (UK) »

I'm in the process of doing may family tree and I've come to a stand still
I'm Tracing the Williams family of aberllynfi /pontithel .
I'm struggling to trace a John Williams . Born in 1830 in aberllynfi Brecon  to parents James and Hannah .
I have him on the 1861 census living in pontithel .... He is a maltster  (master) plus land agent


Hello & welcome to rootschat  :)

Just want to confirm this is the 1861 census you refer too

1861 RG9; Piece: 4223; Folio: 5; Page: 4
John Williams 30 Maltster Brewer & Farmer of 50 acres employing 8 men
Hannah B 27
Bridget E 6
Rosa Jane 5
Lucy May 1

this looks to be John with his widowed mother Hannah

1851 HO107; Piece: 2491; Folio: 83; Page: 1
Hannah Williams Head Wid 60 Agents Widow
John son 21 Aberllunvey Agent & farmer 45 acre employing 4 labourere
Mary Morgan  dau Mar 23 Clerygman wife


Hi ladyhawk,

This is the John Williams I have been researching, thank you for your quick reply.
I have all the birth , marriage and death certificates for the family but John Williams is a mystery to me

I just  can't find his death date anywhere. I am so curious on how he died so young . I was hoping that there is
Someone on here that can shed some light on this . Or if there is a site that has catalogued gravestones in the area of Brecon .

Many thanks
Rob


Offline Mavals

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Re: Really need some expert help in solving a family tree mystery
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 31 January 13 20:09 GMT (UK) »
Brecon Family History Society,  http://www.blfhs.co.uk/
May have copies of monumental inscriptions etc or be able to pint you in right direction

Donaldson: Langholm
Donaldson: Inverurie
Vann: Ightham Kent
Knibbs: London ( Battersea/ Pimlico)
Longman: Poole
Wakeling:
Vicary

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Really need some expert help in solving a family tree mystery
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 31 January 13 20:22 GMT (UK) »
I see that Bridget's death entry is in Hay

Bridget Hannah Williams age 45 (1833)
Mar 1887 Hay Breconshire Volume 11b Page 103

Could this be a possibility for John's death although birth year is a little earlier than 1831

Deaths Dec 1868   Hay vol 11b   page 98
John Williams age 42    (1826)

or perhaps this one it's nearer his birth year

John Williams died age 38 (1830)
Jun 1868    Brecknock Breconshire Volume    11b Page81
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Really need some expert help in solving a family tree mystery
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 31 January 13 21:44 GMT (UK) »

Deaths Dec 1868   Hay vol 11b   page 98
John Williams age 42    (1826)


there appears to be another John with father James on 1841 census Aber llynvey so the above death could be him

HO107; Piece: 1370; Book: 6; Civil Parish: Aberllunvey;  Breconshire; E D1; F: 4; P: 2
James Williams 56 occ. Shoemaker
Ann 45
James 25
JOHN 15 (1826)
Ann 20
Mary 15
Jane 9
William 7

thought I'd found probate for John's father James but it looks as if it relates to this family  ???

James Williams shoemaker died 12 Aug 1845 At Abberllunvey
Probate 21 May 1858 to widow Ann of the Parish of Bryntllys

James Williams died 12 August 1845 left unadministered by Ann widow probate 13 Oct 1883 granted to John Williams Shoemaker the Son of Pontithel in the Parish of Bronllys and one of the next of kin, Former grant May 1858

Not that this will help find son John's death  but father James mentioned here

Under heading Maps

James Williams, Pontithel, Aberllynfi, valuer

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/Crucadarn/index.html

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/Glasbury/index.html

RC/E/CLY/2/91
Declaration of James William of Pontithel co. Brecon, gent., steward of the Maeslough Estate 1825-31 regarding lots 18-24 (date 28 June 1845)

http://www.powys.gov.uk/uploads/media/R_C_E_CLY_bi.pdf

for info. maybe of interest Maesllwch Castle (censuses from 1841 to 1881 it is spelt "Maeslough")

http://history.powys.org.uk/history/hay/maesmenu.html

http://www.cpat.org.uk/projects/longer/histland/midwye/1083.htm







Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Billyblue

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Re: Really need some expert help in solving a family tree mystery
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 31 January 13 22:21 GMT (UK) »
"I just  can't find his death date anywhere. I am so curious on how he died so young "

Dying in your thirties in mid to late 19th century is hardly young.  People were 'old' at 40.

Cause of death of lots of people in those days was TB which usually took them in their late twenties.
This was the cause of sometimes missing a generation - they died before they had time to have a family
Dawn M.
Denys (France); Rossier/Rousseau (Switzerland); Montgomery (Antrim, IRL & North Sydney NSW);  Finn (Co.Carlow, IRL & NSW); Wilson (Leicestershire & NSW); Blue (Sydney NSW); Fisher & Barrago & Harrington(all Tipperary, IRL)

Offline Rob61e

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Re: Really need some expert help in solving a family tree mystery
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 31 January 13 23:51 GMT (UK) »

Deaths Dec 1868   Hay vol 11b   page 98
John Williams age 42    (1826)


there appears to be another John with father James on 1841 census Aber llynvey so the above death could be him

HO107; Piece: 1370; Book: 6; Civil Parish: Aberllunvey;  Breconshire; E D1; F: 4; P: 2
James Williams 56 occ. Shoemaker
Ann 45
James 25
JOHN 15 (1826)
Ann 20
Mary 15
Jane 9
William 7

thought I'd found probate for John's father James but it looks as if it relates to this family  ???

James Williams shoemaker died 12 Aug 1845 At Abberllunvey
Probate 21 May 1858 to widow Ann of the Parish of Bryntllys

James Williams died 12 August 1845 left unadministered by Ann widow probate 13 Oct 1883 granted to John Williams Shoemaker the Son of Pontithel in the Parish of Bronllys and one of the next of kin, Former grant May 1858

Not that this will help find son John's death  but father James mentioned here

Under heading Maps

James Williams, Pontithel, Aberllynfi, valuer

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/Crucadarn/index.html

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/Glasbury/index.html

RC/E/CLY/2/91
Declaration of James William of Pontithel co. Brecon, gent., steward of the Maeslough Estate 1825-31 regarding lots 18-24 (date 28 June 1845)

http://www.powys.gov.uk/uploads/media/R_C_E_CLY_bi.pdf

for info. maybe of interest Maesllwch Castle (censuses from 1841 to 1881 it is spelt "Maeslough")

http://history.powys.org.uk/history/hay/maesmenu.html

http://www.cpat.org.uk/projects/longer/histland/midwye/1083.htm



I have to hand it to you ladyhawk what you have found out in a few hours has taken me over three months to find out . I have all the info you have found , I have found the birth of John Williams in the glasbury parish records online which mentions his father James and mother Hannah , but the records only go up to the mid 1800s , I was hoping for the death to be registered too, but I'm guessing it wasnt registered there.
It is so frustrating because the names Is so popular in Wales and there are many John Williams who passed away around the same time and area .
My first date for his death was 1868 ....he would have been 38 , but I got in contact with the bmd in Powys , which have been brilliant in helping me ....... They had the certificate there but the info I had on John did not match what they had on record .  :(

Thank you for your help ladyhawk






I'm in the process of doing may family tree and I've come to a stand still
I'm Tracing the Williams family of aberllynfi /pontithel .
I'm struggling to trace a John Williams . Born in 1830 in aberllynfi Brecon  to parents James and Hannah .
I have him on the 1861 census living in pontithel .... He is a maltster  (master) plus land agent


Hello & welcome to rootschat  :)

Just want to confirm this is the 1861 census you refer too

1861 RG9; Piece: 4223; Folio: 5; Page: 4
John Williams 30 Maltster Brewer & Farmer of 50 acres employing 8 men
Hannah B 27
Bridget E 6
Rosa Jane 5
Lucy May 1

this looks to be John with his widowed mother Hannah

1851 HO107; Piece: 2491; Folio: 83; Page: 1
Hannah Williams Head Wid 60 Agents Widow
John son 21 Aberllunvey Agent & farmer 45 acre employing 4 labourere
Mary Morgan  dau Mar 23 Clerygman wife


Hi ladyhawk,

This is the John Williams I have been researching, thank you for your quick reply.
I have all the birth , marriage and death certificates for the family but John Williams is a mystery to me

I just  can't find his death date anywhere. I am so curious on how he died so young . I was hoping that there is
Someone on here that can shed some light on this . Or if there is a site that has catalogued gravestones in the area of Brecon .

Many thanks
Rob