Author Topic: JAMES RAMSEY, Looking for a birth North Cave cc1781.  (Read 3222 times)

Offline jess5athome

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JAMES RAMSEY, Looking for a birth North Cave cc1781.
« on: Sunday 03 February 13 22:43 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I have lots of information for James Ramsey born about 1781 North Cave, East Riding Of Yorkshire, marriage and Spouse,(Sarah Clough), children and their baptisms etc and census results.
However I cannot find his birth records, could someone point me in the right direction to look or tell me what to look at, I have tried lots of on line sites but nothing is coming up regarding the birth of this person.
As always any help is greatly appreciated.
My best regards always,
Frank.
Ramsey Ridsdale Ridgway Kempen Knight Harrison Denby Sisson Graney Spilsbury Wain Hebden Abbott Skinn ........ Yorkshire (Doncaster Goole Snaith Thorne area)Lincolnshire Nottinghamshire The Netherlands

Offline warkworth

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Re: JAMES RAMSEY, Looking for a birth North Cave cc1781.
« Reply #1 on: Monday 04 February 13 13:45 GMT (UK) »
Frank

I will look this up for you when I'm next in the archives. I am very familiar with North Cave registers, having spent many hours pursuing my own family there. The parish registers have loose pages which have been photocopied, but it means going back and forth a bit.  The good thing is that in the 1780s and 90s, they were in effect a Dade register and you can find details of your ancestor's parents and grandparents.

A warning - at times the BTs differ from the registers. My own ancestor, born in 1795, appears in the PRs, with her 2-generation descent, but is assigned to a different father in the BTs!

All the best
Joyce
Bennison, Dales, Ezard, Hodgson, Horsley, Hudson, Leng, Leppington, Marshall, Padgett, Reaston, Tate, Thorley / Thurley /Thurlow, Welbourn, Wilkinson - ERY / NRY (18th century and earlier)
Veal, Tyreman, Wetherell - NRY

Offline jess5athome

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Re: JAMES RAMSEY, Looking for a birth North Cave cc1781.
« Reply #2 on: Monday 04 February 13 15:58 GMT (UK) »
Hello Joyce, thankyou that is very kind of you, I look forward to hearing from you, I really do appreciate you doing that for me.
Many thanks again and my very best regards always.
Frank.
Ramsey Ridsdale Ridgway Kempen Knight Harrison Denby Sisson Graney Spilsbury Wain Hebden Abbott Skinn ........ Yorkshire (Doncaster Goole Snaith Thorne area)Lincolnshire Nottinghamshire The Netherlands

Offline warkworth

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Re: JAMES RAMSEY, Looking for a birth North Cave cc1781.
« Reply #3 on: Monday 11 February 13 17:28 GMT (UK) »
Frank

Well, I think I've found what you're looking for, but I nearly missed it.

I took the precaution of checking the register for several years from 1781, rather perturbed that I couldn't find either James or any Ramseys. Then I found the following - and I must say, you're lucky, because this section is part of the "Dade" register:

Edward son of John Ramsey, cordwainer, who was the son of William Ramsey of Eastrington by Mary, daughter of John Rook of Holme-upon-Spalding-Moor. His wife was Eizabeth, daughter of Thomas Hicks. (I think both Rook and Hicks were farmers). Edward was born on 16 Nov, bapt 26 Nov. The year is unclear, but seems to be 1789 (someone seems to have inserted a missed entry for 1787 on the previous page, but it interrupts the flow of the months. The following year is 1790).

I carried on looking for several more years and after a second check, I found on the same page:

James Ramsey, son of Edward Ramsey, cordwainer, 5th son of William Ramsey (see above). Edward's wife was Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas Brown of Haltfield Wood House - that's what it looks like - and Susanna, daughter of James Witter of Sheerness in Kent, mariner, by Sus: daughter of ? Hepworth/Hopwood, something like that, of Chatham. Born 21 Oct, bapt 27 Oct. Again, this would be 1789, so I can only think he was a bit confused about his birth date.

I checked the local early OS maps for "Haltfield Wood House," and then the internet.  And there is a Hatfield Woodhouse near Doncaster, which may be what you want.

You may be interested to know that in the 1820s, a James Witter was the landlord of a pub in North Cave - he appears several times in the ERY archive catalogue. You could also see if Hull History Centre's catalogue has anything on Witter, as lots of mariners are listed. 

All the best.
Joyce
Bennison, Dales, Ezard, Hodgson, Horsley, Hudson, Leng, Leppington, Marshall, Padgett, Reaston, Tate, Thorley / Thurley /Thurlow, Welbourn, Wilkinson - ERY / NRY (18th century and earlier)
Veal, Tyreman, Wetherell - NRY


Offline warkworth

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Re: JAMES RAMSEY, Looking for a birth North Cave cc1781.
« Reply #4 on: Monday 11 February 13 17:35 GMT (UK) »
Frank

And as a postscript - the IGI has James and Mary Witter baptising children in Minster, Kent - Susanna in 1766.

Joyce
Bennison, Dales, Ezard, Hodgson, Horsley, Hudson, Leng, Leppington, Marshall, Padgett, Reaston, Tate, Thorley / Thurley /Thurlow, Welbourn, Wilkinson - ERY / NRY (18th century and earlier)
Veal, Tyreman, Wetherell - NRY

Offline jess5athome

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Re: JAMES RAMSEY, Looking for a birth North Cave cc1781.
« Reply #5 on: Monday 11 February 13 18:38 GMT (UK) »
Hello Joyce, many many thanks for looking that up for me, I am truly indebted to you.
That result is spot on as James is shown in later census returns as being in Hatfield Woodhouse and several of his children were baptised at St Lawrence's church in Hatfield which is only about 2 miles (if that) from Hatfield Woodhouse.
This answers a large part of my research and fills a very large hole for me.
Once again please accept my huge thanks and my very best regards,
Take care,
Frank.
Ramsey Ridsdale Ridgway Kempen Knight Harrison Denby Sisson Graney Spilsbury Wain Hebden Abbott Skinn ........ Yorkshire (Doncaster Goole Snaith Thorne area)Lincolnshire Nottinghamshire The Netherlands

Offline missyirwing

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Re: JAMES RAMSEY, Looking for a birth North Cave cc1781.
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 24 September 13 13:26 BST (UK) »
Hello Frank,

I am a descendant of James' sister Elizabeth.  I am quite certain that their parents are not Edward and Elizabeth Ramsey. 

There is an Indenture in the East Riding of Yorkshire archives at Beverley dated 4th April 1807 which relates to James Ramsey, his brother William Ramsey (who at that time were labourers in Howden) and their sister Elizabeth Kay (nee Ramsey, my ancestor) who at that time was living in Sykehouse (close to Hatfield) with her husband John Kay.  This indenture relates to a lease on land and windmill at Spaldington near Howden.  It refers to their parents as James Ramsey farmer, deceased and Elizabeth.  The document indicates that after the death of James Ramsey senior, Elizabeth senior married Thomas Leak, miller of Spaldington - they were married in Aughton, near Bubwith on 1 December 1785.  After Thomas Leak passed away, Elizabeth senior remarried again to Thomas Hatfield, yeoman in Bubwith on 27 October 1803.

Elizabeth Ramsey junior and John Kay were married in Bubwith on 25 May 1804, less than a year after her brother James and Sarah Clough.  Spaldington was in the parish of Bubwith.  The indenture dated 1807 states "the said James Ramsey, William Ramsey and Elizabeth Kay have some time ago respectievly attained their respective ages of 21 years", so we can be sure that all three were born prior to 1786 (notwithstanding their mother's marriage to Leak in 1785).  You may be interested to know that James Ramsey signed the indenture and was the only one of the three siblings who was literate.

As the lady above stated, the North Cave parish register consists of loose leaves and may or may not be incomplete.  I have also looked at the Bishop's Transcript for North Cave and cannot find a marriage of James and Elizabeth Ramsey or births of their children in North Cave parish.  It is interesting to note that in the parish register for Elizabeth's marriage to Thomas Leak her surname is given as Ramsdale.  There are some Ramsdales in Holme-upon-Spalding-Moor and this may be an oversight on the part of the vicar, as James clearly signs himself Ramsey.  There is a marriage of a James and Elizabeth Ramsdale in Holme-upon-Spalding-Moor but given the ages of the children and indication of age in the indenture, I do not believe them to be our ancestors.

I have searched for the births in most of the neighbouring parishes and will return to check others and additional Bishop's Transcripts.  They clearly thought they were born in North Cave and maybe they were (at their grandmother's perhaps) but they do not appear to have been baptised there.

James' brother William also moved to Hatfield but later moved to Huntingdonshire and Northamptonshire, where he was a farmer of 155 acres.

Kind regards
Sharon

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Re: JAMES RAMSEY, Looking for a birth North Cave cc1781.
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 24 September 13 14:35 BST (UK) »
Hello Sharon, welcome to Rootschat,
Thankyou so much for that information regarding James Ramsey's parents, or should I say lack of them  ::)
The Ramsey connection is on my wife's side, her Grandmother's father was:-
George Ramsey b abt 1874 Thorne
      son of
Thomas Isle Ramsey b 1849 Thorne
      son of
George Ramsey b abt 1816 Stainforth
      son of
James Ramsey b Oct 1789 North Cave?

Am I correct in the fact that James Ramsey b 1789 actually married Sarah Clough b abt 1786.
many thanks again, and my very best regards
Frank.
Ramsey Ridsdale Ridgway Kempen Knight Harrison Denby Sisson Graney Spilsbury Wain Hebden Abbott Skinn ........ Yorkshire (Doncaster Goole Snaith Thorne area)Lincolnshire Nottinghamshire The Netherlands

Offline missyirwing

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Re: JAMES RAMSEY, Looking for a birth North Cave cc1781.
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 24 September 13 17:17 BST (UK) »
Hi Frank,

I do not usually post on forums but I saw your posts and felt I had to make you aware of the information I had that was contrary to the information you were given.

I do not believe that the James Ramsey born October 1789 is the father of George Ramsey born 1816, not least for the fact the the indenture of 1807 states that James had reached the age of 21 "sometime ago", thereby indicating he was born before 1786.

Thanks to the indenture we do know who James Ramsey's parents were, namely James and Elizabeth Ramsey.  I strongly believe that James was born circa 1781; as we have information from a legal document, I think we can be far more certain of the facts rather than conjecture based on parish records alone.  I am convinced that once I find James and Elizabeth's marriage, this will lead me to the births of James, Elizabeth and William.

James Ramsey born circa 1781 married Sarah Clough (born circa 1786) at Bubwith on 14 July 1803 after banns.

Elizabeth Ramsey/Leak/Hatfield, mother of James b 1781 and grandmother of George b 1816 was buried at Bubwith on 21 October 1818 aged 71 years. 

I have seen the marriage of James& Sarah and the burial of Elizabeth in the parish records to verify them, that is not information from IGI.

I am descended from James' sister Elizabeth Ramsey through her daughter Mary Ann Kay, who was born in Sykehouse in 1820.  She was christened in Fishlake, as Sykehouse did not have its own church at the time.  Fishlake, Sykehouse, Stainforth and Hatfield are all in close proximity.

If I can help you further please don't hesitate to ask and when I make further progress I will let you know  :)

Kind regards
Sharon