Author Topic: Edward George LANDELLS - whose son is he?  (Read 13601 times)

Offline Geordie daughter

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Re: Edward George LANDELLS - whose son is he?
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 08 September 13 10:31 BST (UK) »
Hi Matene
How lovely to hear from you! Thank you for confirming that Edward was Adam's twin; at least now I know I wasn't barking up the wrong tree. James and Sarah had another son Adam James Landells, born in 1868, who died - apparently - in 1939, but is this an error, as it seems odd that Edward's twin, born eight years later, was given the same name if the earlier son was still living?

As far as your GGG Grandfather James goes, I have it recorded that he married Jane Burn in 1810 (no other specifics, unfortunately) in St. Michael's*, Alnwick. Jane died on 11 Jul 1824, Bondgate, Alnwick, and James appears to have married a Mary Wann on 29 June 1825, also in St. Michael's. James and Mary appear on the 1841 census with 15 year old Henry Ogle, who I think is likely to be a grandson. I can confirm that James and Jane Burn had the following two children in addition to Adam, as I found their (Wesleyan Methodist) baptisms - Jane and Mary Ann - but I have not followed up their lines. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I suspect that Rev. William Burn(s) Landells of Geelong is another of their children although I have so far been unable to confirm it. It would be good if one of his descendants got in touch with us to compare notes!!

*In case you're wondering why James and his wives married in St. Michael's when they were Methodists: it was a requirement of the time for all couples to be married in the Church of England, regardless of what faith they practised.

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Offline judb

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Re: Edward George LANDELLS - whose son is he?
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 08 September 13 13:41 BST (UK) »
According to FreeReg James LANDELLS was already a widower when he married Jane BURN, however perhaps this is a transcription error - there is no earlier marriage for him in Northumberland on FreeReg

Northumberland, Alnwick
Church   St Michael Bt
14 Jun 1810
Groom: James LANDELLS, Widower      
Bride: Jane BURN, Spinster
Freereg gives no other details for this marriage.

Perhaps this is the death of his first wife? (Also from FreeReg)

BURIAL, Northumberland,   Alnwick
Church   St Michael Bt
Burial Date:   20 Oct 1804
Ann, wife of James LANDELLS
Surname   LANDELLS
Age   21   
Notes   died 19 Oct 1804, husband's occupation: Joiner
FileNumber   27392

FreeReg also has the marriage to Mary Wann:

Northumberland, Alnwick
Church   St Michael Bt
RegisterNumber   421
MarriageDate   29 Jun 1825
Groom: James LANDELLS, Widower
Bride: Mary WANN, Spinster
Witnesses: Jane DAVISON, Thos PATTERSON
Notes   Lic. ( means wed by licence rather then the calling of banns which was more usual)
FileNumber   27396

You have the death of Jane LANDELLS (Burn) as 10 July 1824.  I wonder if there are two Jane LANDELLS as there was this burial of a Jane LANDELLS in Alnwick- but she was 85 years old according to FreeReg

Northumberland, Alnwick
Church   St Michael Bt
RegisterNumber   1341
Burial Date   14 Jul 1824
Jane LANDELLS
Age   85
Abode   Bailiffgate   
FileNumber   27397

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

Judith


DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

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Offline matene

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Re: Edward George LANDELLS - whose son is he?
« Reply #20 on: Monday 09 September 13 07:10 BST (UK) »
Hi Geordie,
Thank you for your reply.  I really enjoy doing family history and it's great to be able to compare notes so thank you again so much for confirming James' wife as Jane Burns.  I can now rest easy about who my rightful GGG grandmother is.  It had become a subject of a bit of confusion of late so thank you for clearing that up for me. As for the son of James and Sarah,  according to our records there is another Adam James Landells that was born 8 years earlier.  For our family, this had also become a matter of confusion however, in other records of other families on our tree, we have children that have in fact been named after siblings whether dead or alive so I guess it begs the question then whether or not this was the case here but to confirm  I have now just found and printed off the family tree from the website which actually shows two different siblings of James and Sarah's children (which are compatible with what I already have) and they are indeed two separate sons.   
it Shows Adam James Landells as being born on 31 January 1868 and married to Sarah Edith Rankin and it also shows Adam James DOUGLAS Landells being born in 1976 along with his twin brother Edward so from what I can tell the Younger Adam was in fact named after his older brother (weird I know not to mention confusing) but given an extra middle name (Douglas) probably to distinquish between the two of them.  Perhaps they called him by one of his middle names rather than his first name.   Also according to the family tree I have, it says that James Landells and Jane Burn did have a son called William Burn Landells, who was born in Alnwick but died in Geelong.  Their son Adam Landells and Margaret Douglas also named one of their sons William Burn Landells as well.  I hope this has helped you and not confused you and thank you again for the extra information on James Landells second wife Mary Wann I was very grateful to have that information given to me.  I have a cousin who's wife's family runs across the Landells line and she mentioned that she thought that James had married twice but she wasn't sure and now you have confirmed that so thank you again and it was great to hear from you.  Take care Regards Marg (Matene)

Offline Geordie daughter

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Re: Edward George LANDELLS - whose son is he?
« Reply #21 on: Monday 09 September 13 15:49 BST (UK) »
Judith, thank you for providing that information in full. Jane's death is intriguing: I might well have the wrong person as the age of death was not shown in my source (Family Search, if my memory serves me - this is going back a good few years and I neglected to record where the info came from!). It could be that our Jane died somewhat earlier in the time frame, as the youngest of the known children was baptised in 1819. Interestingly, James was living at an address in Bailiffgate by the time of the 1841 census, so perhaps that Jane was an elderly relation of his? I did wonder briefly if Jane's age could perhaps have been wrongly interpreted as 85 instead of 35 by the transcriber, but without seeing the original, there's no way of telling.

Re Ann Landells: there are a good number of Landells in Northumberland in the early part of the 19th century, including several called James! Our James was a tailor in 1841, but that's not to say he wasn't a joiner in earlier years, so we can't rule out the possibility of Ann being the first wife. Our James was born about 1778 so he would have been about 26 or so when Ann died.

Marg
Family history is fascinating, isn't it?  I'm very glad to have been of help, although it's worth you checking other sources to make sure of the info I've given you, as Jane's death details may be wrong (see Judith's post)! Thanks for clearing up the confusion about the two Adams: I didn't know the twin had Douglas added to his name so that's a big help. He may well have been known as James.

While trying to find something more on Jane Burn yesterday, I stumbled across information in posts about William Burns Landells and Adam on other sites which will probably be of interest to you, as it certainly was to me!! Someone researching the McKay family put up the following information on William some years ago: born 1811 in Alnwick, died 1871; father James Landells, grandparents Adam Landells (1740-818) of Swinton Hall and Alison nee Scott (1735-1814) of Alnwick. Adam and Alison had the following children: William, Jeannie (Jane? - the names are interchangeable on the Border), Walter, Thomas, Margaret and Gavin. This pretty much confirms, and expands on, the info you have given me, which is wonderful, as I can now add William to my database with confidence.

The details on Adam came up in a very recent post on another forum, so if you Google him it should pop up. It revealed that he was actually gardening at Alnwick Castle, working for the Duke of Northumberland - something I, at least, didn't know - who (very generously) gave Adam 10 when he heard he was emigrating. Adam also acted as a Sunday School teacher at the Sion Chapel in Bondgate where his son James - and probably the other children too - was baptised.There are some snippets from newspapers of the time regarding Adam and his family, which make interesting reading.

Do you or your cousin have any idea why my Edward would have ended up in South Africa, at all? All the Edwards seem to have had itchy feet in the Landells family!!

Offline matene

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Re: Edward George LANDELLS - whose son is he?
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 17 September 13 16:20 BST (UK) »
Hi again Geordie,
Sorry it's taken a few days to get back to you.  I've had a pretty hectic week and have just now had another chance to get back into my family history and my e-mails.  I read the reply from Judith and did a little bit more digging on Jane and according to the information I have found is that she was actually born on 9 May 1783 and died 11 July 1824 which would have made her 41 years old at the time of her death. Judith was also right about the christening date of Jane and James' youngest child.  This would have been Mary Ann. She was born 29 June 1819 and died 28 April 1841 making her 22 years old at the time of her death so these dates are certainly consistent with the record she has. As for Adam and Alison Landells (Adam being my GGGG Grandfather) they did indeed have the children you mentioned. William, Jeannie, Walter, Thomas, Margaret and Gavin.  I have them all on the records my family have passed on to me just recently and yes on these new records I received Jane is definitely on there so I was pleased as punch to receive those.   
In Regards to William Burn Landells, yes, he was born 9 April 1811 in Alnwick, Northumberland and died 16 February 1871 in Newtown, West Geelong, Victoria so that information is also correct and consistent with what I have as well.   Also, thank you for that little tid bit of information on Adam I was thrilled to learn that.  As for Edward ending up in South Africa, we have no idea why he went there at all.  But you're right they did have itchy feet.  It seemed that they just couldn't keep still.  A trait unfortunately that seemed to pass on to my own family.  I recall as a child my parents couldn't seem to keep still either so I guess that perhaps it's probably in the blood. Anyway thanks again.  It's great to be able to communicate with someone else who knows about the Landells family.  I had spent a good deal of time a number of years ago trying to access information on my Grandpa's family only to hit brick walls but happy to say that the drought did eventually end and the information finally started landing in my court and I have to say that I'm finding it truly enlightening.  Take care Marg 

Offline Geordie daughter

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Re: Edward George LANDELLS - whose son is he?
« Reply #23 on: Monday 23 September 13 09:17 BST (UK) »
Hi Marg
No need to apologise about the late reply...as you see I have the same problem. Too much to do, too little time, as they say!! I will private message you in the next day or so, as I'd like to find out more about your 4x great grandparents Adam and Alison (if you don't mind) and I can give you what I have on the South African Edward, if you're interested.

Offline rkwau

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Re: Edward George LANDELLS - whose son is he?
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 03 October 13 05:22 BST (UK) »
Currently I am doing some famhis on the Vines (William Burns Landells's daughter Mary Jane married my maternal great great grandmother). Have a bit of info. Looking for info on Adam as he was William's brother.

Offline Geordie daughter

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Re: Edward George LANDELLS - whose son is he?
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 03 October 13 08:37 BST (UK) »
Hi Rkwau

I'm happy to give you what I have on Adam, although Marg may have more detail on him than I do, as he's in her main line. I should be able to private message you once you've done a couple more posts.

Offline rkwau

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Re: Edward George LANDELLS - whose son is he?
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 03 October 13 11:02 BST (UK) »
Thanks Geordie daughter. I have a bit of info re Adam, but I would like to know what his movements were after coming into Adelaide and marrying Elizabeth Dibbs.
And how many children were with Adam after Margaret died on the voyage?